Hi Ray
I think I have seen both of these, or very similar examples before.
Both I think are made up of parts and I fear are designed to mislead collectors.
The first is based on a blank before that has been pressed before the fret work takes place to create the voiding. I have examples of these for a couple of different helmet plates.
The second one, the pattern of globe is a clue, this is from an 1878 RMLI officers helmet plate. It is just of a completely different quality to the laurels. The laurels are interesting, they look early and I have always thought MIGHT be RM but I've never traced them in any images and a surprising number of images exist back to the 1850s.
Sorry I can't be more positive
Yours
John
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