Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen
The 1st Foot Guards knapsack with painted badge, 1815.
In 1808 knapsacks were ordered to be painted black & to bear regimental numbers, the Foot Guards bearing regimental badges.
The Foot Guards cartouche badges are described as of stamped brass, but the photo of the 1st Foot Guards one is of a cast badge.
The cartouche badges worn by the three regiments appear to me to be significantly larger than the CG elongated star badge that started off this thread.
I like the quotes attributed to ex-servicemen in response to Lady Elizabeth Butlers questions while researching "The Roll Call", her painting of the Grenadiers after battle during the Crimean War.
"One rather alcoholic Chelsea Pensioner, asked what letters should be shown on the Guards haversacks, decided that they had been 'B.O.' for Board of Ordnance; then changed his mind in favour of 'W.D.' for War Department; then, on reflection, decided that it should after all be 'W.O.' for War Office."
"The artist asked another ex-Crimean soldier if it was correct to show a grenade on the pouches. His unhelpful reply was, 'Well miss, the natural hinference would be that it was a grenade, but it was something like my 'and.' In the event she was lent an original badge by the War Office".
The badge like an 'and sounds to me like the grenade badge but the only cartridge pouch badge visible in the painting appears to be the crowned garter & cypher.
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I believe it was a crowned garter, the cartouche badge that they had worn for a great many years. The GG were actually quite slow in adopting the grenade fired proper for anything other than their forage cap badge for some years, and I think that the badge they used at first for caps was the simple GS grenade used by flank companies.
I accept that the badge that started this thread might not be a cartouche badge, but its larger size suggests to me that it may well be from one of the earlier forage caps, perhaps that in use before 1900, as they too were slightly larger. My main point and theory is that the same die was very likely used for a range of purposes.
Your implied point about Lady Butler's painting and her sources is well made and amusing, but the images I posted in the latter part of the thread on the 'grenade fired proper' were taken from life by the artist concerned and not from years later. The peaked forage caps and associated badges then in use (1830-50) are especially interesting and the latter seemingly the same size as the cartouche badge.
Thank you for the images, I am more convinced than ever.