Hi JT
Sorry I’m a little late coming in on this one, but I’m only an infrequent visitor to the Forum these days. Anyhow, back in 2010 I made a number of postings about some Leicesters TF badges I have with longer sliders, both of which are approximately 45mm (1¾ʹʹ) in length, firstly on this
thread and then
here.
One of the badges, which was made by J. R. Gaunt & Son, I had obtained from a fellow collector, and Forum member, who told me it was a puggaree/pugari badge. Presumably he had been led to believe this based on the longer than normal slider. The other badge, which is of more direct relevance to this thread, is the ‘kitten-faced’ type and so is the exact same makers’ variant as yours; save that it does not have the top ‘Hindoostan’ scroll of course. For convenience here are the images of this badge again:
I am sure that many Forum members are familiar with the excellent work done by Julian (KLR) in establishing how the original length of the vertical shank (slider), which had first been used on badges for the Brodrick Cap (NP Forage Cap) when it was introduced in 1903, had been shortened in 1906. Back in 2010 this led me to speculate that my badges had possibly been worn in the Brodrick, however the difficulty with this suggestion is the fact that the top scroll-less Territorial Force badges only came in around 1908 by which time the Brodrick Cap had been officially replaced by the NP Field Service Cap; this coming in about 1906 and, apparently, resulting in the need to shorten the sliders on badges for this.
At the time Julian also pointed out
here that whilst he was sure the length of sliders had been shortened in 1906 he could not confirm what the original length had been, and suspected it may have been much long than 45mm and could have actually been around 60mm. Although I do not collect helmet plate centres, which I understand were used as pugari badges, something Andy (2747andy) has already noted above, I was under the impression that these were in the region of 60mm in length?
On one of the 2010 threads Alan (AlanO) thought that the longer
circa 45mm sliders may have been worn on the “standard peaked cap as used throughout WW1”, though I don’t think we ever settled this, and personally I’m still at a loss as to what kind of headgear my two Leicesters TF badges with their longer slider were worn on!! What I am pretty sure of, however, is that both my ‘kitten-faced’ TF badge above, and your regulars one, are pre-First World War. Although I haven’t been able to yet identify the actual manufacturer of these, I have quite a few of their badges and my personal belief is that those examples with the smaller narrowish oblong braze holes are the earlier ones.
Interestingly Dean (mooke07) has the ‘cousin’ of my longer slider ‘kitten-faced’ TF badge in one of his albums
here, but his looks to have had its slider shortened!!! By the way, Dean, I’d be interested in seeing these “pictures of Leicestershire badges being worn in the pagri of the pith helmet during its time in India” that you mention please – maybe you could PM me about this? Finally, and in relation to this, there is the following snippet From the
Green Tiger, Vol. III, No. 8, August 1907, p. 90:
I suppose what we really need is someone who has a Brodrick and a badge with a 45mm slider to see how things look together!? Anyroad, hope some of this is of interest?
Best regards
Martin