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Old 01-02-15, 12:28 PM
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'Ticker' Riley 'Ticker' Riley is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ex Brummagem (now in West Wales)
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Default Leicesters TF/TA Badges without "Hindoostan" honour

Hello Rob

Sadly, like Dean, I haven’t been able to contribute to the Forum for a while now, and have only recently begun to make brief visits again after another long absence.

Nonetheless, in answer to your question, my understanding was that because the Territorial Force were granted the right to wear badges showing the honours of their parent regiments in September 1917 (see a posting I made about this here), that after this date they wore the exact same badges as the regulars; at least were the Leicesters are concerned.

In off-Forum correspondence, Julian (KLR) has kindly shared information he has about certain TF badges being made obsolete later that same year, i.e. 1917, and his view that the granting of the right to have honours on the badges, and the subsequent obsolescence of those without, was all to do with the War Office taking over badge supply from the Territorial Associations and wanting to reduce the number of variant badges being produced.

In any event, although any change within the Leicesters’ TF battalions from badges without top scrolls to those with the “Hindoostan” honour like the regulars would have had a transitional period, by the time of the Second World War all members of the Leicestershire TA should have been wearing the same badges as their comrades in the regular battalions.

I personally, therefore, can see no obvious reason why a plastic Leicesters’ badge should not have its top scroll, and so in this case am of the opinion that it would never have been worn like this. Basically why would someone change their band new badge to try and make it resemble a badge that had become officially obsolete more than twenty years previous!?

Perhaps the “Hindoostan” honour did break off, or partially come away, and then someone purposefully removed the traces of this? Why you would want to do this I don’t know, but, like I say, I cannot see any reason myself for a badge like this not having its top scroll and being worn without it.

As to the Dean’s point about bi-metal Leicestershire Regiment badges where their top scrolls have been removed, and whether some examples of these are genuine TF badges or not, I am of the opinion that some could be, but that others have more than likely been deliberately altered by the taking off of the “Hindoostan” honour.

My own feeling is that when the TF badges were first introduced in 1908, it is likely that regulars’ badges were used and that the top scrolls of these removed, probably by the makers. Later badges, however, I believe, would have been produced from dies which were true to the design of the badge and so did not include a top scroll.

As to whether old sweats who transferred from the regulars to the TF then altered their old badge to show this change, I am still undecided on this. I have seen a number of badges, often with loops (lugs) rather than vertical shanks (sliders), that could fall into this category.

Unfortunately, I am not knowledgeable enough about any regulations that might have governed this. Such as would it have been a requirement of an old soldier upon joining the TF to physically alter his badge, or would he, in fact, have been allowed to have worn his badge with the “Hindoostan” honour because he had served as a regular and therefore was entitled to show this? Perhaps someone out there does know more about this?

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”

Last edited by 'Ticker' Riley; 01-02-15 at 12:38 PM.
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