Quote:
Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman
Toby
We know the grenade hasn't really changed much since the Crimean War ( Photographic evidence ) 165 years. Why would it have changed 20 odd years previous ? I know there is no evidence of this. That badge is in reversed metals, not used by the Grenadier Guards.
Andy
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The 2nd and 3rd Foot Guards were much more straight forward as mentioned before. The 1st Foot Guards (Grenadiers) made a more gradual move to adopting grenade insignia, having used the garter strap for a much longer period previously. Undress caps, usually of forage type, had cloth badges initially as you know.
It seems to me that there is a strong likelihood that the first metal badges used were the standard pattern, flank company brass grenades. These were worn by all right flank companies, Guards and Line. There is no evidence that the Guards wore a different, special pattern. It was after all just one company (of 8) in each battalion.
My suggestion is that eventually, around 1838 when the peaked forage cap was issued to the Foot Guards, the Grenadiers simply fitted the flank company grenade badge to the entire battalion’s caps whilst retaining the brass garter strap on their cartridge pouches (cartouches). I’m suggesting that it ‘might’ be that at some point not long after, the First Class Staff (around 5 in most battalions, including the sergeant major, but the Guards probably had more) adopted a more elaborate badge with Queen Victoria’s cypher. I do not know if the badge shown is one of these but I’m suggesting that it might be. The beginning of the reign of a new Queen would be a good time to start.
It is of course true that we know such cyphers have been in white metal for some time, but we do not know for sure that they always have been (or do we?). I would love to see proof otherwise, but unless you can show me different, no badges that are unequivocally from 1838-48 seem to have survived. Photographic evidence only extends from the Crimean war, before that we have to rely upon the artwork of primary sources who were direct onlookers at the time. These latter show that brass badges were being worn that early on.
I’ve previously asked for someone (anyone) to post photos of early badges in the collection of the Grenadier Guards Museum, but none have been forthcoming. Brass numerals and flank company symbols from line regiment caps do exist in collections, so it would be odd for there to be no surviving insignia for the Grenadiers. I think that there are, but that in most cases they are simply the standard pattern flank company grenade (see attached image).