Hoot,

No connection to the Owners of this shop or website but there is a list here on the Treasure Bunker Militaria site.

https://www.treasurebunker.com/forum...-maker-stamps/


Simon.

Great, thanks for that Simon. So it seems Vauxhall never got involved in that side of things. Shame really, I wouldn't have minded owning a Vauxhall helmet, mind you, going by the 1978 Vauxhall Cavalier I owned in th 1980s it's probably just as well they never made them. ::)

Here's quite a rarity although not overly visually impressive. Group Warden with the single diamond of Head Warden (O&T Memo No. 13), marked front and back. I've not seen a "GW" marked one before. It came via the Laidlaw Auction a week or so ago which appeared to be selling a huge collection of Aero and Blitz related bits based in Kent although I've not managed to find out who's collection it was.

General Post Office
 

I've had this helmet for several years, I thought it would look good displayed with the wartime GPO combination I've been working on.

You often see black helmets with "GPO" painted on the front but I don't remember seeing another green one like this, I wondered if it could be for a Home Guard GPO Battalion, although the helmet itself was clearly made before the LDV started?

Rob

I can't answer your question...but I've seen black, green/khaki AND grey shelled GPO helmets.......I'd be interested in the answer to your question.....however I can't help fearing that we're wasting our time looking for a deep and meaningful explanation.....more than one organisations instructions were "dark coloured helmet"....or "helmet colour as issued"......

Good luck!

Bearing in mind this is only an assumption, early war home front helmets were usually a shiny grey green colour, later many of them were overpainted in black or whatever the specific "unit" colour was, perhaps for the GPO this is early and has not been repainted.

Here's a nice one. Specific to the Kent Region obviously....they had a few little quirks which differed from the National missives. Indeed, a number of the Regions had a few quirks...which is what makes this fun I guess....or tremendously frustrating!:confused:

Great example of a local variation.

Keep 'em coming!

Jon

National Fire Service Helmet
 

I bought this one recently, "19" is for Yelverton in Devon and presumably covered nearby Plymouth, I may move it on, its nice and local but I'm running out of space.

Anyway here is my question, this isn't the first Fire helmet I have seen without the "NFS" transfer, is there a reason for this?

Rob

Yes, it's an oddity I've noticed too. I've also seen ARP/CD photos of personnel with no CD badge but an area badge and vice-versa. Could it simply be due to shortages of transfers that never arrived or arrived too late and they didn't bother applying them?

I'd be interested to know the answer.

I have a 20 for Cardiff which has no NFS decal but it does have the remains of the AFS markings (at the back/or front so to speak) and I assume it is from the transition from one to the other..

Would a fire appliance carry a few spare helmets to loan to people being rescued? you wouldn't want the victims to be confused with the rescuers, but the number could help recover equipment afterwards?

Rob

Our local AFS/NFS did not.

I hear rumours that the Home Front helmet book is getting close to being finished...

It can't come soon enough.

Jon

re the riddle posed in #49...the Fire Force oval badge (originally hand-painted) was agreed before the now familiar NFS "star" badge.....one can only assume that, for a period perhaps, the application of the oval pre-dated the arrival of the Star.......maybe???

That's a good theory, but what sort of dates are we talking about?

The date on the shell of this one as shown in post 49 is right under the rivet, but the liner says " 6 1/2 BMB 1941".

Rob

Some official paperwork that helps explain some of the mystery.

NFS Instruction 31 dated 11th October 1941 refers to 'the helmet badge design [which] corresponds as closely as possible to the [metal] cap badge' and states that 'initial supplies are being sent to all Fire Force HQs'.

However NFS Instruction 37 of 20th April 1942 states 'NFS transfer badges for steel helmets...are available and will be issued to Fire Force commanders in the course of the next 3-4 weeks...'.

This would appear to suggest that whilst there may have been an initial supply of the transfer cap badge, the main supply did not arrive until over six months later.

There may well be a dated NFS instruction on the application of Fire Force numbers but if so I don't have a copy.

Jon

Thank you Jon.

So the NFS badge transfers were sent to the headquarters after the helmets and they never caught up with helmets already issued to individual stations.

Fascinating stuff.

Rob

Mr P. Warden is correct...all the documentation suggests that the badges were coming.....and coming.....and coming......and whilst that was happening (or not) the helmets were out there, presumably being Fire-Forced-up but with no stars to add. I would not be surprised if there's an instruction somewhere advising Forces to start without them (Star transfers) but I've yet to find it.

One of my very few Home Front helmets, a Royal Fusilier Home Guard.
A Mk II No 2c I think it is (3 small holes either side on the rim)

That's a nice one. I don't do Home Guard helmets but I've seen a lot...but never this badge. Thank you for sharing.

'any more coming? :)

Very nice.

Rob

Thanks for the image of such a helmet in wear - I'd not seen one before.

Royal Fusiliers = City of London HG.

Thanks - I checked through (online "research") RF HG battalions a couple of years ago trying to determine which would have worn the transfer, some or all but made no progress. I would imagine that these helmets appear in quite a few photographs of the time.
The seller had it listed as a WWI Grenadier Guards helmet as I recall, I advised her it was WWII RF HG and was pleased to win it.

There was an interesting Birmingham Small Arms helmet on ebay this week described as WW2.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW2-Briti...53.m1438.l2649

The wording on the decal seems odd though, in 1953 the company name changed from "BSA Cycles Ltd" to "BSA Motor Cycles Ltd", so if this is genuine it may be post 1949 Industrial Civil Defence Corps?

Rob

..good spot.....Company name changes are often reflected in the helmets themselves...6 years is a long time in business and things changed....but a post-war name is something else.

Here's a close up of a recent addition...Industrial ARP Chief Fire Officer (2 red bands, "CFO" in red, blah blah) but underneath the top coat is a transfer...shield-shaped with a single "F" and a bar above the shield. One can only assume the Shield was applied before the fire brigade was Industrial ARP'd-up (I think that's a verb)...and the bar may have been a rank identifier.......may, might, if, but...I know, I know but you gotta start somewhere!


...or was it a Company name that started with "F"...or was it Freds helmet....

If you were of the mind set of some collectors of WWII era German helmets youd've carefully removed the paint necessary to reveal the original markings in all their glory (and thereby ruined the helmet of course).

True.....and I was 51:49 against.....the CFO ranking is the highest in the force so there is likely to be one per company (1 or 2) and the marking is nice in this case BUT had it been rough I’ll be the first to admit that a bit of stripping / scratching might’ve followed. I can see what the badge contains....I just can’t see the colours...you never know, one day I may be walking past it as I’m carrying a small screwdriver in an irresponsible way........ :-)

I find these “ghost” markings the most interesting....they reveal the impact of rule / role changes...... I know it’s not exactly pit-digging with tiny brushes but to me it’s paint-deep archeology......

It's part of the story - these things get "cleaned up', its history revealed, history lost.
I suppose if you have the contacts who have access to the necessary equipment you can "see" through the layers of paint (the best I've ever managed is to run an item through an x-ray machine to check a royal cypher hidden by leather work).
Apart from the WWII German helmets (someone hoping to find a transfer that means they can sell the lid for £1000 instead of £200 etc) the helmets that seem most prone to paint removal are the Irish 'Vickers" helmets, the Civil Defence white paint being stripped to reveal the original green-black army finish.

I have added a few more to my collection over the last few months which I don't think I shared.

Seeing any of these just reminds me of all the helmets I could've should've got for pennies years ago. They're nice little pieces of history.
What's that last one Jerry, the insignia's ringing bells from a thread somewhere on this forum?

And my expanding NFS helmets.

Even with just five the variations can be seen, one raw edge, one with no NFS decal but does have traces of AFS on the rear,one with the decals in an unusual location, one with traces of two district decals but both with the number not showing -which is bloody annoying as it is from district 22, the only erlsh district I don't have- two with rank bands, one redand one blue and traces of a rank pip.

PS if anyone has or sees a district 22 for sale please let me know.

Leigh, the last pair is Mills Foundry Llanisloes where I got them from, the one is quite rubbed but can be seen as to what it is when next to the other with the good condition markings.

It's great when provenance from insignia can be that specific.

One stands a chance if the Company concerned survived the conflict but in most cases they're long gone...thank the Lord for Grace's Guide....and JMs "Doing their Bit" book!

'don't think we've had any yellow here yet........

GCO = Gas Contamination Officer...or some think Group Co-ordination Officer.....but it's definitely FOOD related!

There were Decontamination teams for food and other stuff...and their existing jobs/skills tended to dictate what they did in the war.......for example, the Decontamination of pathways and streets was usually to be undertaken by pre-war Street/Road cleaners. Analysis of chemicals used was undertaken by Chemists etc etc

...just like London buses....'don't see one for ages and then two come along....

Another yellow one which came my way recently - Assistant to GIO....'never figured out why they weren't simply "AGIO" but these things often don't go the way you think they should. Nice colouring under the dirt, shell was originally black.

Interestingly (for some of us at least), I don't think I've ever seen a "GAS ADVISER"-marked helmet.....they're out there......somewhere.......

Here's another yellow one I used to own. A.G.O. G.P.O.

Rob

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=91135

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=91134

A couple more odd ones I had in the past.

Rob