Medal Ribbons - ID Please
 

I wonder if one of the forum's medal aficionados would be kind enough to cast an expert eye over this picture and perhaps ID which medals this Queen's Westminster Rifles Bandsman, is wearing, please?:

Attachment 71169

With thanks,

Peter.

Yes Peter,
They are medal ribbons.
Hope that helps
Matti

Drat, you beat me to it!! :eek::D i will add that they are black and white ones :p

Peter,
Colour did not come into everyday life until 1956 so that should help to date it a bit.
Matti

Attachment 71173
Middle ribbon of the three could be a K.S.A.(see attached) and the plain dark ribbon could be the V.L.S.G.C. - depending of course on when your photo was taken, but none appear to be 'Pip', 'Squeak' or 'Wilfred'.

I love it when mates are helpful!!!!!!

Help could be my middle name. :D
Matti

It could be but I suspect Peter may have another name for you!

You know, a lot of people have other names for me. Some are not very polite either! Unlike Duke William of Normandy, my parents were married. Some put the words stupid, daft, irritating or annoying before the nickname they have for me.
Oh well
Matti

This is a long shot, but could the first one be the Tibet Medal (1905)? Although the white strips seem a little wide. If the second one is the KSA, it was never issued without the QSA and I am sure the first one isn't.

Peter,
To be helpful, I have had a proper look and can say that the first one is NOT the Victoria Cross.
Matti

I think it's simpler.

1. Queen's South Africa Medal
2. King's South Africa Medal
3. Army Long Service & Good Conduct.

The KSA could not be awarded to soldiers without the QSA; and the vagiaries of orthochromatic film play tricks with light and dark tones on period medal ribbons, which is to say that I don't think it is the Tibet Medal. I plump for the LS&GC (which didn't get white edges until 1918) on balance of his being a regular.

Would what you said :confused: :confused: really make the dark blue on the ribbon appear white (I know nothing about photography)?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt/817283/

It can do, yes. And the logic is that no KSA without a QSA as well.

The advice a far more experienced photographer gave me on the Great War Forum was thus:

The trouble is that the photographic reproduction process in use at the time of the Great War actually alters the relative tonal values of the image. Thus we find dark blues appearing as very light in real Great War photos - e.g. the dark blue Khedive's Star ribbon in my picture of Sgt-Master-Tailor Simpson, which appears almost white.
If you take a modern image of a dark blue medal ribbon and switch it to monochrome, the resulting greyscale image will still appear dark.

Well there you go, I've learnt something today :)

QSA is easily identifiable in period photo's and although would go with a KSA for regulars or militia(who were embodied) - not so for a Volunteer, especially if his V.S.C. only entered theatre after the death of Victoria. Again A LSGC wouldn't be awarded to a Volunteer, who were awarded a VLSGC, which had a very dark green ribbon.
Attachment 71176

Attachment 71177
An unknown Volunteer/T.F. Sgt Major of the Northumberland Fusiliers with wife & sons, wearing the Q.S.A. & V.L.S.G.C. together indicating service with a V.S.C. prior to Victorias death.

My great, great uncle, 7th Hussars then 3rd Hussars, with QSA medal

Gents,

Thank you all very much indeed for your input and for the benefit of your knowledge and experience.

Peter.

(Not a Victoria Cross, Matti! I ask ya!!!) :rolleyes:

I go along with the QSA KSA LSGC theory.

In general, greyscale photos pre-c. 1925 are ortho film which, with caveats, renders red/orange/yellow very dark, green neutral, blue pale.

The caveats involve the amount of black or white [darkening or pastel] in the originals. Pure black and pure white show as .......... surprise surprise ......

black, or white.

Simples!

Having had a few problems lately in trying to decipher medal ribbons from old photographs, I have found these notes very helpful. Thanks for posting them.

Cheers,
JohnG

Just an example to show the effect on a badge of known colour, AA Command is a black bow on red but appears reversed in the pic, unless it's an unrecorded variant(unlikely)
Lee

Lee,

That is remarkable.

Can I just throw a possible spanner in the works by asking; if the black areas of the badge appear so light, then why don't the other black/dark hues in the photo appear that way too (such as the lady's pupils, for example)?

Could it have anything to do with the red background of the badge?

Peter.

I doubt if ortho film was used in WW II

I understand that there were restrictions on certain chemicals in WW2 which could cause some anomalies I think this badge is the earlier painted type with gloss black, perhaps some light bounce off the surface, but also note how dark the red looks.
Lee

When film finally came on sale again at the end of WW2 it was ex RAF Panchromatic film which was available, which I understood to be the type of film in general use by the services during WW2.

I think a very salient point was made above by the suggestion different effects were produced during the processing of the film, according to what chemicals were available.

And for your information PJ, and your expert knowledge of the City of London, I would mention the first shop I knew of to sell the surplus film was in Houndsditch, right bang facing St. Mary Axe. I imagine it is long since gone in redevelopment after the WW2 bombing of that area.

Cheers,

johnG

Thanks John - always good to have a little more local London info to digest :)

PJ