Commando dagger badge. Datation?
 

Hello,

Attached is a commando dagger badge. I would see it as possibly from ww2 period. What do you think? When from in your opinion?

Thanks & Best Regards,

JD

Bonjour JD,

It's certainly not my area of expertise, but I believe these badges (Commando Group) were issued shortly before the war ended as a replacement for the Combined Ops insignia. The French Commandos as part of the 1st Bat FM Commando didn't wear this badge before the unit was disbanded in July 1945.
Attachment 231552
I've attached a photo of 2Lt Jacques Senée receiving his Legion d'Honneur from General de Montsabert around Oct 1945 in Strasbourg. He wears the new badge.
He remained in the French Navy after the war. He was to be killed in Indochina in January 1950 fighting as a parachutist with the Army (6 BCCP).

The badge looks like a replica IMO.

Hello tcrown,

Thank you for your appreciated response. Actually I acquired this badge from a canadian seller who was selling two pieces of same exact pattern of this badge. I took the most preserved one of the two, as the other one had already served of good lunch to the moths. Hence if replica, it isn’t one from yesterday (& canadian moths are sometimes collector’s friends & appreciate replicas :) ).

Any other members’ opinions please on genuine vs replica?

Please note too that I am collecting not only f.f. militaria, but also Royal & Commonwealth navies ww2 militaria, so I’d be interested to get confirmed whether or not this type of badge was worn by british or Commonwealth commandos, before ww2’s end (which according to other posts on this forum seems to be the case)?

All the best,

JD

Hi JD
Yes that is the most commonly found WW2 pattern. A nice example
Paul

Hello Paul,

thank you for your message. So according to you, it would then be a ww2 genuine piece.

Best Regards,

JD

I believe original
 

Hi JD,
IMO the badge is a nice original.
I love that type of backing.
There are those better informed than me on commando pieces though.
Regards
Jon

Hi Jon,

Thank you too for your message & opinion. Glad to read this, as my time zone of collection normally doesn’t go beyond 1945. :)

Cheers,

JD

Emailed mate
 

I ha e sent you an email mate.

From my book Badges on Battle Dress

Jon

Although the War Office and Royal Marines had agreed by 17th January 1945 to introduce the new [Commando dagger] badge it did not come into use until after hostilities ceased, Commando Group Routine Order No 183 of 2nd October 1945 stating that ‘Printed Commando Group formations signs with a fast dye are now available and should be demanded from ADOS, Commando Group’.

Hi Jon. This is consistent with the information provided on French commandos in post #2.

thanks guys
 

I love this ssite.so much knowledge.
Thanks guys.

Hello Postwarden & all,

Thank you for this provided new information.

Best regards,

JD

Jon is the daddy on this but I do wonder on what scale Commandos (and others) broke the rules. We know Printed Ordnance issue was the official issue from circa 1942, but the numbers of red on black embroidered titles (designations) and signs is confusing. Some context provided by images (see Commando Veterans Association archive etc) appears to defy rulings. I think (not got my papers to hand) there was a protest that when ordered to switch to official ordnance printed, at least one Cdo unit was said to have already purchased embroidered insignia (unofficially), this would include Combined Ops sign rather than SS/Cdo Gp. Cdo Group signs are a particular nightmare to date but Belly is right in saying the pattern illustrated is accepted as standard late WW2 when Combined Ops patches were replaced. Sorry to muddy the water and very much welcoming further thoughts ... Mike