Two different APTC standard pattern cards
 

I noticed this pattern card in Grey Green Acorn's album: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=116001
I bought one from fellow forum member Hagwalter which is almost identical but for a few details; Mine is sealed 31-12-63, the slider is Firmin maker marked and property of the War Office, where Grey Green Acorn's badge is sealed 5-3-65, Gaunt maker marked and property of the Ministry of Defence http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=116000.
What would be the reason behind the existence of these two seemingly identical patterns?

Rgds, Thomas.

APTC Sealed Patterns
 

Here is another from 54bty collection and in the Social Group album.
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for....php?groupid=7

Tim

The first badge appears to me to have a 'frosted silver' finish, as intended for WO1 (officers still purchased theirs from an outfitter). This was the same for SASC and AAC, but both of the latter corps chose to make other arrangements and the badges sat in ordnance depots. The second badge is normal anodised aluminium for ranks below WO1. For all three of these corps it was possible to demand these frosted finish badges through the supply chain even though the latter corps had decided not to wear them.

Both Pattern Cards are 'Other Ranks' and are Standard Patterns used as working patterns to loan to manufactures etc, and they could be several for each 'pattern' but only one Master.

From 1946 to 1964 five Departments of State did the work of the modern Ministry of Defence: the Admiralty, the War Office, the Air Ministry, the Ministry of Aviation, and an earlier form of the Ministry of Defence. These departments merged in 1964; the defence functions of the Ministry of Aviation Supply did not merge into the Ministry of Defence till 1971 and Sealed Patterns reflected the changes.

Since 1949 Officers as well as WO1's could demand Officer Pattern Cap, Collar as well as Buttons free of charge via the QM, but purchased their own Service Dress & Coloured Cap.

Re APTC

NSIGNIA, ORGANISATIONAL, CAP
Insignia, Organisational. Cap.
Army Physical Training Corps.

CB 8455-99-130-3867
Officers; Gilding metal and nickel silver. Gilt and silver-plated finish
(Gold Crown & silver cutlass)

CB 8455-99-130-9467
Soldiers; Aluminium. Anodised silver finish.
(All silver)

That's very useful Mike, thanks for posting. I wonder if it was determined how many copies of each 'master' there could be and what exactly governed the number.

Incidentally do you have the same type of entries for the SASC and AAC? I would be interested to see them.

Hi Toby,

The Master and Standard Pattern cards (Standard Pattern previously known as 'Working Pattern') were derived from the prototype badges provided to the Army Dress Committee, or similar, for their approval prior to officially authorising the acceptance of the finished badges.

From this group of prototype badges a number were kept for Master and Standard Patterns. The rest were disposed of probably by throwing them into the bin.

As I know things, on occasions, more than one Master Pattern was created for store into the Pattern Room from which it was never issued out as per the Standard Patterns to requesting companies.

The reason for such duplication of the Master Pattern, so I am led to believe, was as a back up against loss. For the Standard Pattern cards I do know, from documentation written on a Standard Pattern card for the A/A Royal Tank Regt. that, and to quote:

‘13 STANDARD ONE MASTER'

that an arbitary number of Standard Pattern cards was created.

Multiple patterns, for the same badge, with different dates are commonly found. The reason for this is usually that the badge was deemed obsolete either by design or mistake and later resurrected to correct the error or to reuse the badge for a different purpose.

Why this has occurred here, for the APTC A/A cap badge is currently unknown but I do wonder if a non-A/A version of the badge was authorised after the earlier A/A version's pattern date. This non A/A badge to be later withdrawn and replaced again by the A/A version via re-sealing with a later date.

Regards

Chris

Here you go. The Army Air Corps have never had an issued metal officers badge as they wear a Private Purchased Bullion Beret Badge

AAC approved Officers’ beret badge as illustrated on Dark Navy backing is cut to wear and is available from the AAC PRI Shop

Thank you Chris, that is very clear and interesting to boot.

Thanks Mike, I managed to get away with demanding an officers pattern SASC badge whilst still serving. I was surprised that I got away with it as the officers had long before chosen to wear a collar badge in their berets, that were also worn with SD. They have since adopted bullion badges in berets and now wear a forage cap, so I imagine the frosted badges have been dusted off and at last issued.

As regards the AAC, with which I also served for a period, I am surprised. I have seen a frosted silver badge twice, once on an eccentric Lt Cols forage cap, which he had obtained from a trial pattern never adopted by the corps (perhaps intended originally for the band), and the second time at a collectors market. On each occasion the badges had East-West loops and cotter pin and were in a frosted silver finish identical to that of the SASC. The Lt Col later wore his unique cap and badge at his own court martial, thus ensuring that images of it were splashed all over the press.

The answer lies within the quote. The AAC took the 'All Beret' tradition from the Glider Pilot Regiment and the Airborne Division, and has never had an approved Service Dress Cap - so no badge was needed.

Surprised he got away with wearing it really, but Hay Ho

The SAS is also a 'All Beret' Corps, but wore a Coloured Service Cap during the Queens Coronation, but no 'approved' Officers Cap Badge has been listed, suggesting that like the AAC example you talk off was probably privately purchased. A O/R version is however coded. So there is always a deviation from the rules!

:p One of the first jobs I had in the RAOC was to work in the Detail Bins in Shed D2 at COD Bicester in 1970 and well remember the Section CB Bins (Shelves) which had small brown cardboard boxes with a sample of each badge then still in store with Part Number (almost all 13 digit NSN's) and description as per older CCN & COSA - There were still 'Kings Crown' and even long forgotten Regiments still in stock.

The first real cull came late in 1973 when all badges then not catalogued in the September 1973 edition of COSA were declared obsolete. The edition before that was dated 1963 and I do not think a similar exercise was carried out at the time. All badges made obsolete were transferred to Disposals for sale by auction.

:mad: Much the pity as I was not interested in collecting at the time, but some were and demands did come in for strange badges from time to time! There was a Display Board based on the 1947 CCN which also disappeared around the same time but I later saw it on display in Depot HQ.

The coloured AAC forage cap he wore was sky blue, as you would expect. I don't think he bought it but purloined it from the corps directorate and depot at Middle Wallop. I recall his name was Keith Pople and there must be some photos online of him wearing it.

If I had had your job at that depot I would not have been able to resist liberating some of those old badges from the fate of an impersonal auction.

Toby,
Here it is!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/273824.stm
Tim

The AAC did the Buck Palace guard a few years ago. The Coy Comd was ex-Guards and had a AAC badged peaked cap which he wore on their final mounting of the guard much to the RSM's annoyance.

Around 2007 it was decided that only one master and two working patterns would be produced and kept. This explains the abundance of surplus patterns on the market. For items over £800 only one master is kept.

Marc
Reference correspondence between me and the Pattern Room.

That's it Tim, and I see I was mistaken, he has a bullion and not metal cap badge. That means I have only seen the frosted badge once, at the collectors fair.