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-   -   Uniform with badges for Major Q. E Gurney Norfolk Yeomanry served at Gallipoli (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68629)

Jeffweil 29-06-18 02:15 AM

Uniform with badges for Major Q. E Gurney Norfolk Yeomanry served at Gallipoli
 
5 Attachment(s)
Hello. I am posting this uniform to get feedback on the collar insignia. These should be Norfolk Yeomanry, but I believe these are simple general service. Is there any way that Major Gurney would have worn these collar insignia.
I bought this uniform from EBay about a year ago. It is named to Major Q. E. Gurney on the maker's label. I am trying to restore it to it's correct form, so I am guessing that I need to find a pair of officer Norfolk Yeomanry collar badges. If anyone has one or a pair to sell, I will not haggle about the price.
My question to the forum - Is there any logical reason for these collar badges to be on this tunic - other than the fact that they are cheap and readily available.
The Norfolk Yeomanry left their horses in England and sailed to Gallipoli. They landed on 8 October 1915 at Anzac Cove, and evacuated on 20 December. Therefore they spent about 6 weeks in that hell. After Gallipoli, the Norfolk Yeomanry went to Palestine in time for the 3rd Battle of Gaza and the capture of Jerusalem. Finally, the Yeomanry made it back to France in June 1918 and participated in the final Hundred Days Offensive.
Any feedback on whether there is any way that these collar insignia are correct for this tunic would be appreciated. Thanks

badjez 29-06-18 07:09 AM

Major Q. E. Gurney
 
Whilst I cannot offer a definitive explanation I can offer two suggestions:
a) At some stage in this tunic's life it has needed replacement collar badge, and either KORR Norfolk Yeomanry badges were not available, or whoever replaced them knew no different.
b) This tunic was worn by someone other than Gurney who served in another unit. I suggest this as the yellow triangle 'battle flashes' are not those associated with the yeomanry of their successor Norfolk Regt Bn. These triangles have been associated with other infantry battalions raised under the Norfolk Regt cap badge though.


Whilst recognising the yeomanry buttons, I presume you have confirmed that Major Q. E. Gurney did serve with the Norfolk Yeomanry?

Stephen.

grey_green_acorn 29-06-18 07:46 AM

Is there any sign that the scrolls have been removed? Or perhaps OSD General List collar badges were a reasonable substitute?

http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/429/442/large_000000.jpg

Tim

Jeffweil 29-06-18 01:11 PM

Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, I have found Major Gurney's records and they show he was with the Norfolk Yeomanry and landed at Gallipoli on 8.10.15 and was entitled to the 1915 Star Medal.
My research shows that this Batt. served in France after June 1918 with the 74th, then the 31st Division.

Jeffweil 29-06-18 01:28 PM

Tim - Thanks so much for the pic. You have answered my question. Many thanks!!

norfolk regt man 29-06-18 06:35 PM

Nice jacket

rob carman 28-07-18 11:24 PM

In Sept 1901 QE Gurney was a very junior officer and founding member of the Norfolk Imperial Yeomanry. In 1904 Capt Gurney was Signalling Officer, Eastern Mounted Brigade. He was a Yeoman until at least 1906. He may have resigned and rejoined in 1914.

Petre's regimental history does not have Gurney landing at Suvla with 1/1 Bn. In Bastin's book on the Yeomanry, Maj Gurney, 2/1 Bn, at Wivenhoe in the summer of 1916, is said to have been dismayed about the switch from horses to bicycles. I cannot trace him after that.

The Natl Portrait gallery has a photo Gurney.

Rob.

colin 17 29-07-18 11:46 AM

Here are some NY officers collar badges.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norfolk-Y...YAAOSwpEdbVNpM

Jeffweil 31-07-18 03:17 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback. As an American, I have lots to learn on British records. Attached is a copy of his service record - list Gallipoli 8.10.15. Not sure why he isn't listed with the regiment. I don't know why he would be back in England in 1916 - rather than in middle east. I see 2 names in the regimental records. One is for this Major Q. E. Gurney. The other is listed as a C.F Gurney. The names look close enough that I assume it is the same guy. Anyway, the name in my uniform is Major Q. E Gurney.
Also attached is a pic from a link that you guys gave me. I don't know if this is Gurney.
If there is a way to access Gurney's pic, I would appreciate knowing how to do that.
Thanks again for all the input from everyone.

rob carman 31-07-18 12:46 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The Gurneys were/are a banking family in Norfolk with a history of serving in the county's Yeomanry going back to the 1860s. I would start with the assumption that QEG and CFG are separate individuals.

The reference by Bastin is to QEG. I rate Bastin's coverage of this period pretty highly, at least compared to Petrie. He uses unpublished written notes from two 2/1 Bn members. I had not thought to cross check the Gurney reference with Walter Guinness's (1/1 Bn at Galipolli) diary - I'll do that at home tonight (and confirm the names appearing in Petrie's list).

I have attached two images of QEG with text that toes the Bastin-line.

Rob (from southwestern Virginia)

Jeffweil 31-07-18 08:46 PM

Hello Rob. Thanks for all your help with this. - Jeff

rob carman 31-07-18 10:57 PM

Petrie - Definitely does not have QEG in the list of those officers sailing on 25/9/1915. He is not indexed or not mentioned elsewhere in the text. There is nothing at all about 2/1 Bn. Cut and paste http://lib.militaryarchive.co.uk/lib...-1685-1918.asp for an online copy of Petre

It is "Maj QE Guney" that Bastin says was saddened by loss of the horses. He gets no other mention.

QEG is not indexed or mentioned elsewhere in the diary of 1/1/ Bn's Walter Guinness (aka Ld Moyne).

He is named in JR Harvey's history of the Norfolk Yeoman (free online at http://books.google.com/books?id=4_8...ncible&f=false).

Jeffweil 01-08-18 10:14 PM

Thanks for all the effort on this Rob.

norfolk regt man 02-08-18 05:48 AM

Have a look online for earlham hall, his home in Norwich

Jeffweil 06-08-18 12:56 PM

Nice estate - the family did OK for themselves


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