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-   -   Scottish Regiments / Battalions - please your 2nd opinions. Thanks! (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84748)

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:00 PM

Scottish Regiments / Battalions - please your 2nd opinions. Thanks!
 
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Gentlemen,

If this is getting repetative I appologize. Here are several badges to Scottish units. The question once again is: are these original, ww1-era and or ww2-era badges. Once again your time and opinions are very much valued and appreciated. Thank you.

Cheers, Tom

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:00 PM

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Scouts ww1-era

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:01 PM

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Scouts ww2-era

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:02 PM

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Horse

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:03 PM

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Royal

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:03 PM

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Borderers

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:05 PM

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Rifles

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:06 PM

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Black Watch

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:06 PM

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HLI

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:07 PM

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Seaforth

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:08 PM

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Cameron

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:09 PM

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Royal 4/5 Bat

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:10 PM

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Argyll

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:11 PM

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Liverpool

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:13 PM

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Liverpool Cameron

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:14 PM

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Seaforth 5 Bat ww2-era

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:15 PM

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Tyneside

kaiserwilhelm2 05-05-21 05:16 PM

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London

cbuehler 05-05-21 10:44 PM

The 4/5 R. Scots is a phony, and I believe that Cameron Hldrs. is as well. The 5th Seaforth is a cast badge, not the normal die struck. I don't know if it is period or not.

CB

kaiserwilhelm2 06-05-21 06:38 AM

Thanks CB!

Question to all: As to the Seaforth bat badge, I too noticed it being cast - does that automatically mean it is a reproduction badge or could it still be a period ww2-era badge?

cbuehler 06-05-21 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaiserwilhelm2 (Post 548350)
Thanks CB!

Question to all: As to the Seaforth bat badge, I too noticed it being cast - does that automatically mean it is a reproduction badge or could it still be a period ww2-era badge?

It does appear to have age to it and the replaced lugs look like older styles. It is not a typical "reproduction" so to say.

dubaiguy 06-05-21 05:40 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cbuehler (Post 548341)
The 4/5 R. Scots is a phony, and I believe that Cameron Hldrs. is as well. The 5th Seaforth is a cast badge, not the normal die struck. I don't know if it is period or not.

CB

With regard to the Cameron I have this strike and had considered it correct. St Andrew has a distinctive look, like he's been on the sauce for a couple of years - very bloated, heavy lidded eyes and a nose that's exploded. Not a pretty sight! I feel though that I've seen this particular strike on period photos, but I cannot recall where and of course that could have been entirely wishful thinking and interpretation on my part.

CB could be quite right that it is dodgy, I'm just proffering another angle as I hadn't considered it so.
Mark

cbuehler 06-05-21 08:32 PM

Regarding that Cameron, the rough reverse and the style of lugs and their placement very high up are red flags for me. Off hand, I don't recall any such badge being offered for sale as genuine by good dealers either. That face and those feet are quite laughable; hard to imagine being accepted by the regiment.
I would have to doubt that this badge could be discerned in old photos unless it was very close and clear indeed.
As always, none of this is empirical evidence, but....
CB

Alex Rice 07-05-21 05:38 AM

I think the 4/5 Seaforths is ok. I have one which came from a good source.
Cheers,
Alex

dubaiguy 07-05-21 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbuehler (Post 548407)
Regarding that Cameron, the rough reverse and the style of lugs and their placement very high up are red flags for me. Off hand, I don't recall any such badge being offered for sale as genuine by good dealers either. That face and those feet are quite laughable; hard to imagine being accepted by the regiment.
I would have to doubt that this badge could be discerned in old photos unless it was very close and clear indeed.
As always, none of this is empirical evidence, but....
CB

I realize that who is and who is not a respected or 'good dealer' has been challenged on here recently, primarily because a couple of the old guard / retiring dealers are now listing one or two fakes on their online platforms. This has been discussed in a number of recent threads.

However, quickly using the 'search' facility on some of the respected and erstwhile respected seller sites (not eBay), as well as two of the newer sellers, I quickly found that 5 of them have this particular Cameron Highlanders strike for sale. One of them is also a respected member of the Forum.

Of course that fact doesn’t make the badge right, we’ve already established that some respected dealers are perhaps now not as respected as they once were and I do agree he is one boozy looking saint, but certainly it is being listed.

Thinking about it, I now feel I saw this particular strike displayed at Fort George indicated as WW2, though of course memory does play tricks. Especially mine.
Mark

Luke H 07-05-21 08:33 PM

The Cams looks good to me.

Personally I wouldn’t go for the 4th/5th Seaforts either, it’s cast from a genuine badge and does have some age to it but... when and where it was cast precisely? *dismounts hobby horse*.

Nice 4th pattern Tyneside Scottish, shame about the loops!

kaiserwilhelm2 08-05-21 10:23 AM

Just to summerize so far:

Unlike most of the other threads I have started the opinions are somewhat more divided here:

With 5 Seaforth being cast some think original others questionable.

Cameron Highlanders some think original (Luke H, Dubaiguy), cbuehler thinks it is not original.

Royal 4/5 Bat is a reproduction according to cbuehler.

Except for Tyneside none of the other badges have been discussed - Can I conclude from that, that those badges are all original????

Can anyone please confirm or deny cbuehler's opinion on the 4/5 Bat Royal Scots?

Can anyone shine any further light on the Cameron Highlander badge and that of 5 Seaforth please?

Thanks!

wardog 09-05-21 05:09 PM

Luke- 4th patt Tyneside Scottish- Are there maker variations of this badge? If not, what do you look for? Regards, Paul.

Luke H 09-05-21 05:35 PM

Yes two good makers variations that I’ve seen, both shown here in this post: https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...20&postcount=7

The above variant is somewhat scarcer and always a nice deep strike. I did have good pictures I’d saved from Geoff Newman’s website when he sold one but due to the chaos that is my phone’s album sadly cannot find them.

The more common 4th patterns type can be found on loops, hex lugs and pin back where the one here I’ve only ever seen on loops which are positioned fairly high up the badge.

Last time I counted I think I’ve got about 5 of these searching for the ‘perfect’ one. Clearly I have problems!

wardog 09-05-21 06:12 PM

Thanks Luke, I see I posted in that thread https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...eside+scottish
The badge I show is now giving cause for concern, though it is similar to the 1st posted by Andy P. Mine though seems to have a sort of hatching between the upper left thistle and the saltire. The line base of the tower doorway is also faint. Regards, Paul.

Luke H 09-05-21 06:23 PM

Your badge in post #4 is fine Paul.

kaiserwilhelm2 09-05-21 06:30 PM

Thanks Luke!

wardog 09-05-21 08:29 PM

Thank Luke. I think my badge in post 4 of the old thread may be 'related' to Andy P's 1st badge, perhaps the 'hatching' was a detail only visible on earlier examples of that variation? I'll pick your brains on the 3rd patt. sometime. Cheers, Paul.

Luke H 09-05-21 08:38 PM

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Yes yours is the same as Andy Pís first badge in his post and mine below. Itís perfectly genuine.

kaiserwilhelm2 10-05-21 07:14 AM

Taking stock so far:

Bad:
4 and 5th Bat Royal Scots (CB)

Good:
Lovat ww1-era (in Yeomanry thread)
Tyneside

Divided opinions:
Cameron (Good: Dubaiguy and Luke, Bad: CB)
5th Bat Seaforth cast badge (Good:Alex, Others hesitant)

No opinions expressed:
All other

Further opinions very much welcomed. Thanks!

kaiserwilhelm2 15-05-21 08:24 AM

How are you? I would very much welcome some second opinions on those 11 badges that have not had any opinions expressed on them. Thanks!

wardog 15-05-21 03:53 PM

I personally don't like that Cameron type, I cant say its wrong, I just like versions with better feet- for me he fails foot inspection. Seaforth good 3 lug WWI type-missing a lug? The Kings Liverpool Scottish looks a nice example-2 parts placed well together. Regards, Paul.

kaiserwilhelm2 15-05-21 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wardog (Post 549686)
I personally don't like that Cameron type, I cant say its wrong, I just like versions with better feet- for me he fails foot inspection. Seaforth good 3 lug WWI type-missing a lug? The Kings Liverpool Scottish looks a nice example-2 parts placed well together. Regards, Paul.

Thank you Paul. I will err on the side of caution with the Cameron and return that one. Should not be hard to find an example that is less controversial.

Seaforth is indeed missing a lug but cheap.

Liverpool Scottish is indeed a beautiful badge and thanks for confirming that because I really want to keep all those that are good and hope that I do need to send back any good badges just because these did not get a 2nd opinion.

Much appreciated!

Frank Kelley 15-05-21 06:18 PM

Whilst the Seaforth is certainly missing a lug, I suspect it is a little older than it might appear.


Quote:

Originally Posted by wardog (Post 549686)
I personally don't like that Cameron type, I cant say its wrong, I just like versions with better feet- for me he fails foot inspection. Seaforth good 3 lug WWI type-missing a lug? The Kings Liverpool Scottish looks a nice example-2 parts placed well together. Regards, Paul.


wardog 16-05-21 10:32 PM

QVC on the HLI? Regards, Paul.


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