York and Lancaster Regiment cap badge - good or bad?
 

I welcome any opinions on this York and Lancaster Regiment cap badge, it looks to have been struck off-centre, but is it genuine or fake? It was part of a lot so nothing lost if it is a duffer, if a good one it will be offered for swap/sale.

Thanks for looking

Graham

It's fine. Quality varies considerably in ORs badges.

CB

It's not a badge I would buy.
No genuine wear or patina.
It seems to be the same die as an all brass one on ebay atm at the bargain price off £44 quid !!!!
Hopefully other members will comment before you try and flog it :)

The Tiger's feet and the ground are a very distinctive shape and exactly the same as Fig 51 in Forum Member Ivan Machin's book 'A Guide to the Badges of the York and Lancaster Regiment 1822 to 1968. Unfortunately with one major difference, the badge in Ivan's book has an all white rose. Though I suspect both are from the same die.

Ivan's text for Fig 51 are "There are no sweat holes which would date this badge to after the 1930's to the end of the 1940's".

He goes on to say in relation to the all white rose, "The purpose of this badge is currently not known".

Probably raises more questions than answers.

Mark

Mark, I believe you are spot on, it is exactly the same as the one in my book and here on my website

https://www.yorkandlancasterregiment...imit=12&page=3

As for raising more questions than it answers, it actually answers the mystery about this particular pattern of badge and why my version has an all white metal rose.

It appears that the gilding metal centre of the rose on Graham's badge is simply stuck on top of the white metal. Its therefore a logical conclusion to make that on my version, the gilding metal rose is missing or has fell off.

Of the 20 + patterns of Y&L OR's badges I've seen, I don't think I've come across any others that have the rose stuck on so its interesting to see Graham's version.

I'll amend the website description shortly.

Ivan

"Rose stuck on" - picked up at Cambridge Market on 11/6/80 - the rose and coronet were attached to the badge with glue, I can't remember if the yellow metall centre of the rose was attached to the white metal with glue, I think it was ( It's around in an odds and ends box).

The tiger has three back legs.

The images are photographs of old photocopies of the badge, the lighter one with the glued on bimetal overlay, the darker with it removed.

Thank you all for your input, am I correct in thinking that the consensus is that it is genuine, if not the best example, referred to on Ivan’s website as “Type 25”?

Graham

It appears to be the same die as these modern all brass copies without the rose stuck on. Perhaps that explains the lack of a sweat hole.

Hi Ivan,

This is one of mine, with the applied rose :)

The badge in question at the start is original. The examples posted by parabellum are indeed similar, but close examination shows slight differences.

CB

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced this version is a copy. The giveaway is the 3 all brass versions shown in this post one of which has lug fixings. Its unlikely that a genuine example of a badge with lugs (indicating Victorian/Edwardian period) exists that does not have sweat holes.

Therefore, I believe the example shown in the first post is a copy.

Other examples of copies seem to follow a similar theme in that the same stamping is used but with a variety of lug and slider fittings.

Ivan

Just from the photographs you show, I would say that it appears to be of recent manufacture and postdates the period the badge was originally worn by the regiment making it completely spurious.

Ok, so the general consensus is that it is a fake, not to worry, as I said at the start it was part of a lot so no great loss. Thank you again to everyone who commented, as always your input is greatly appreciated.

All the best

Graham