Happy St Patricks day, Canadian Irish
 

In honour of the Irish, here is a cap badge from the Canadian Irish Regiment, Birks marked on a Canadian made caubeen.

Very Nice Mike

Aussie PM, Tony Abbott, was told-off by the Irish PM for wishing the Irish a Happy St. Pat's Day and saying he'd love to share a Guinness with them. I once mentioned Guinness, but I think I got away with it . . .

What does the inside of your caubeen look like? I have one with a post 53 Irish Regiment of Canada badge, but the caubeen looks older. Other than the size and the remains of a diamond shaped plastic label there are no markings in mine.

Caubeen
 

It is marked A.B. Hewer Toronto, hard to read and photo the inside.

No date but has the C Arrow.

Nice example of a Hewer. Mike, a quick observation if I may, that current configuration does not make sense. Since you have a hackle on it, you must remove the touree....

(don't remove the touree) Looks great.

It would look good with that Irish Regt BD you have...

Yup they always do. I have a few wartime caubeens. In fact, I currently wear a wartime Hewer. I was wearing a '52 dated Echlin, but they fit terrible.

Happy St Patricks day.....
 

Pylon:
Why would you have to remove the touree if a hackle is worn (on WWII caubeens)??
On the Regts` return to Toronto in Jan 1946, I have seen a photo of a group of Irish Regt officers wearing hackles, and I believe, the touree was also present.
In addition, I have seen photographic evidence og a group of Irish Regt officers earlier in the War, wearing the two tone brush hackle,with touree present.
Comments please.....
Cheers,
John S.

Hello John, don't confuse the Officers Brush with the Hackle, they are two different distinctions, as you are well aware.

Yes you will see lots of photographic evidence that clearly shows the Touree with the Officers Brush.

I will likely go off the rails a bit here, but that is my usual form. Not intentional, just A.D.D.

On the eve of the battle of Coriano, the Officers of the Irish Regiment of Canada hosted the Offices of the London Irish Rifles. At this dinner the Senior Officers were presented with the light blue hackle as worn by the Officers of the London Irish.

The Regiment did not wear the hackle as general issue until sometime just post war. I have no specific dates for this as I have never located solid authorization for this. However, I have included some photos here that may be of interest to you.

The first is of Sgt Douglas Johnson, taken in England post war. Although, again, no specific date on this photo, I would have been prior to January 1946 when the Regiment returned to Canada.

The second photo is a studio photo of Clarence Rowe, tanked in Toronto shortly after his return in January 1946. Both photos clearly show the hackle and absence of the touree.

The third photo is primarily "just because" I was fortunate enough to know all these men. RIP Ernie Lalonde, Arnie Davidson, Frank Gill, and Ted Patrick in front. As far as I know, Don Hill is still with us, as is Colin Campbell. This photo was taken in Holland on their return visit in 2005.

Happy St Patricks` Day.....
 

Pylon:
Thanks for the pics and explanation.
Sorry to muddy things, RE; hackle and brush. As you say, both different, and worn at different times during WWII. BTW, the colours for the brush would have been white over green??
I find these pics most interesting, The pic of the Sgt Johnson and Clarence Rowe clearly show them wearing the hackle and the touree has been removed from both of their caubeens. I find your explanation that all ranks would have received hackles some time after the Regts` return to Toronto in 1946 logical-too bad that this can`t be nailed down as to exactly when this might have happened.
In regards to the touree removal, it would seem that this happened some time between 1944 and 1946? Again, I can say 1944 because I have seen a photo from 1944 showing two Irish Regt members wearing caubeens, that definately have tourees present. I wonder if an exact date for this can be established when the tourees were removed?
Lastly, if touree removal was an approved (sanctioned) act, is it possible that the touree was reinstated some time into the 1950`s? I wonder about this, because I have seen many Irish Regt caubeens from several manufacturers and dated from several years in the 1950`s, that have had the touree present.
Again, comments please.
Cheers,
John S.

Hello John,
The hackle was issued post war, but appears to have been some time while the Regiment was still in the U.K. I say this due to the fact that Sgt Johnson's photo was taken while he was still in the UK.

As for the colour of the Officers Brush, I have never had the opportunity to handle one or see one other than photos. I have asked about this but no one I ever talked to was able to say with all certainty that these were white over green. (which as I suspect they were)

In regards to caubeens manufactured in later times still having the touree, yes I have noted that, you are 100% correct they were manufactured with 50's dates with the touree. I don't have an answer for you as I have not been able to determine these answers with any certainty. I have been unable to date find much information at all about the Dress Regulations of Regiment.

Other than Echlin, what manufacturers have you noted for post war caubeen manufactures? Again, this is something that is lacking. I know we had many produced in Pakistan in the 80's and 90's, these were pure shyte.

It is rare but if you ever come across a Hewer manufactured caubeen without the C /l\ it is a pre, to early WWII one. I don't have the exact dates but the Irish used to pay for their own caubeens until sometime in 1940. The Government was not paying the bill for these therefore the Government acceptance mark is not present.

I am sorry I can not give you an exact date, my information is locked away in the hard drive of my laptop that has suffered a catastrophic failure. I have not had the time nor funds to purchase a new laptop ( too many great medal groups coming up).

Happy St Patricks` Day...
 

Cliff:
Quite correct, the hackle was not brought into use until after the Surrender in 1945, my error! Makes sense that it would have come into use while the Regt was in the UK- stocks of these would have been available there, whereas on the Continent, supplying these would have been problematic.
RE; Tourees present on 1950`s made caubeens- just about all insignia and uniform bits and pieces made for DND back then (not so much now it seems!), were based on sealed patterns that demonstrated exactly what was required/needed by DND so that all items would be the same and no variations in quality or design would occur. With this in mind, as speculation I wonder if the Irish Regt did not receive official sanction to remove the touree and maybe the same applied for the addition of the hackle? Surely the manufacturers would have made these caubeens exactly to Govt required specs, so to keep the touree present would have added a bit to the cost, and not have been to the approved sealed pattern, a situation that the manufacturers would have wanted to avoid.
Echlin, of course would have been one of the big makers of caubeens in the 1950`s, and probably had more than one contract to make these items. There were others, but I can`t remember the names or location of these makers. I seem to remember the manufacturers logo on the inside of one particular caubeen, but the name eludes me. BTW, this caubeen also had the touree present. Perhaps other collectors with these 1950`s era caubeens following this thread can contribute this info from their specimens?
I agree, the caubeen examples from the 1980`s were horrible- I was aware that they were made in Pakistan, but also thought that some Cdn manufacturer(s) also produced some examples, again with less than acceptable results.
Thanks for the info on pre and WWII caubeens. This info I was not aware of.
Good luck with your laptop fix. It is frustrating when you can`t access the info you are looking for when something like that happens. Hopefully your fix will happen for you sooner rather than later!
Cheers,
John S.

I'm confused. So the touree is not worn at all, only the hackle? Is the hackle worn all the time, or is it kept for certain occasions? If the hackle come off does the touree go back on?

Does it coincide with the Guiness?