Welsh Guards attributed badge?
 

Does anyone have a Great War WG cap badge attributed to an individual? I would like to lookout for a period badge and would like to see some variations known to have been in use then. Regards, Paul.

To broaden this out slightly-any one have a WG badge with a strong reason to link it to 1915-1918? Regards, Paul.

Hi Paul

Here are three badges from WW1:

An OR badge with Reg. No. 2612 on the shank that belonged to Private D.E. Randall from Port Talbot, who joined up between 16th Feb to 14th March 1916.

An OR pagri badge (blades missing) with Reg. No. 4404 on the shank that belonged to Private W. Trought (or Trout) from Cardiff, who joined up between 25th Jan and 22nd March 1918.

The one with blades I think is a rare helmet badge.

I hope this helps.

Thank you Bill, good of you to post. Can you tell me if the badge with slider and 2612 number is fully flat to the rear or is the lower portion hollowed out? Did you have to research this badge or did it come from Randall's family?
I think without providence it must be hard to date a WG badge. Lugs and sliders seem to have been in use at various times since formation. Regards, Paul.

So are you saying that the pagri was extant during the Great War, is there a sealed date for them?

I’m pretty sure Julian’s work records them as being ordered with ‘vertical shanks’ in WW1. I’m sure he will correct me on that if I’m mistaken.

Personally I’d just look for one with a nice tapering slider, you do see them with partial crimp marks and I’ve no doubt they will be WW1 or thereabouts.

Hello Luke. Yes, Julian does mention sliders in a WG thread- I think I was confused by his 1914 album that mentions lugs-but I think that may refer to his example collected as a boy. Regards, Paul.

Hi Paul
The badge is cast and solid.

The three badges were part of a collection of Welsh Guards insignia I bought at Toovey's auction house. They were from an estate of a gentleman and part of his very large Guards collection.

My guess is that this OR is part of the first batch of badges made for the regiment. It has been mentioned before on the forum that Welsh Guards OR badges of WW1 were all issued with sliders, not loops. The badge was sealed on 17th May 1915, pattern number 8387, although, according to Dudley-Ward's "History of the Welsh Guards" (1919), the details of the uniform were settled in March 1915. Also he mentions the "re-issue" of badges whilst the battalion was at Douzies (a suburb of Maubeuge, North East France), during September-October 1918.

As to the pagri badge, I don't know when that was sealed or issued. The band was part of the Mass Band, Brigade of Guards during a visit to Italy, Feb-March 1918 and I wonder if they wore the FSH rather than bearskin. Anyone have photographs from this tour?

Bill

Thanks Bill. I enquired about a couple of numbered examples recently and they happened to have cast leaves but lower part of leak hollow, so perhaps variation from the start. I wonder how long was the period WG stamped their sliders? I also notice in early pictures the leaves were favoured less spread out and the lower part was worn over the chinstrap. Thanks all for help with this, I know I'm not the 1st to enquire about the WG Great War badge, I probably wont be the last. Regards, Paul.

Okay, well I see absolutely no reason why they could not have been originally made prior to the end of the Great War, the other regiments had them and the design of this badge does appear upon period postcards and ephemera.

I believe the pagri badge was worn between the wars when the battalion was on overseas garrison duties.

The pagri badge is shown in wear between the wars (late 1930's) in newspaper photos of 1 WG in London en route to Gibralter. I think there's Pathe News footage of them, possibly on YouTube.
Somewhere on forum in someone's album there's a photo of one of my uncles showing the pagri badge on helmet.

Edit: links added

https://youtu.be/0HEsNHS2T2k

https://youtu.be/xLTAuY6axJI

Yes, that's 1939, I think there is also silent and very grainy footage from 1929 of them leaving for Egypt too, but, it is difficult to see if a badge was worn upon their helmets.

I think I now have one to represent The Great War period. There have been a couple shown on the forum with service numbers on crimped sliders. Regards, Paul.
Attachment 238194 Attachment 238195

Looks a nice badge. I’d have no issues with that being WW1 era.