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-   -   Brecknockshire FSH & Puggaree (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72107)

Jelly Terror 09-02-19 08:10 PM

Brecknockshire FSH & Puggaree
 
3 Attachment(s)
Visited the St. Albans Museum today, and spotted the Wolseley helmet shown below.

The cap badge at the front is Brecknockshire, and appears to be an OSD. The flash on the left side of the puggaree is very faded and discoloured. Would anybody know if this flash is correct for Brecknockshire, and what its colours (when not faded) actually are?

With thanks,

JT

BROOKIES 09-02-19 09:27 PM

Evening.

Pagri flash is correct and would be green/white/green.

Helmet looks like the one (probably the same) that DNW sold from the late Llewellyn Lord collection back in Sept 16.

Ta

Jonathan

leigh kitchen 09-02-19 09:33 PM

There's a photo on eBay at the moment (well, there was yesterday) of a group of Brecknockshires with FSH bearing what looks like the same flash and possibly metal badges to the front.

Jelly Terror 09-02-19 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BROOKIES (Post 468333)
Evening.

Pagri flash is correct and would be green/white/green.

Helmet looks like the one (probably the same) that DNW sold from the late Llewellyn Lord collection back in Sept 16.

Ta

Jonathan

Many thanks, Jonathan.


Quote:

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen (Post 468334)
There's a photo on eBay at the moment (well, there was yesterday) of a group of Brecknockshires with FSH bearing what looks like the same flash and possibly metal badges to the front.

Thanks Leigh. I think this must be the eBay listing you refer to:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F401477471860

grey_green_acorn 09-02-19 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen (Post 468334)
There's a photo on eBay at the moment (well, there was yesterday) of a group of Brecknockshires with FSH bearing what looks like the same flash and possibly metal badges to the front.

This one?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-soldi...UAAOSwdW9aJDIY

Tim (Beaten to it!)

leigh kitchen 09-02-19 11:26 PM

Yes, that's the one.

Hoot 09-02-19 11:42 PM

I just don't see the connection of the helmet to St. Albans.:confused:

Jelly Terror 10-02-19 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoot (Post 468350)
I just don't see the connection of the helmet to St. Albans.:confused:

Hoot, that’s a really good question.

In the C19th, straw hat making was a major trade in St. Albans, with over forty factories in the town. At the outbreak of the Great War, the companies that thrived were those who were willing to adapt their skills. Companies such as E. Day & Co. began to produce helmets like the Brecknockshire example on display in the museum.

I have no idea if the example on display was manufactured by a St. Albans hat maker, and I suppose a Wolseley bedecked with the insignia of a Herts unit might be deemed more appropriate for display. Then again, the fact that the this was not a Herts unit got your puzzler whirring and generated more info.

JT

leigh kitchen 10-02-19 08:21 AM

Some FSH were made of fabric covered straw, I wonder if this one is?

leigh kitchen 10-02-19 08:24 AM

Aha - a St Alban's manufactured straw FSH.
A quick Google rather than a trip to check Peter Sucui and Stuart Bates books -
http://www.militarysunhelmets.com/20...lseley-helmets

"Only two straw Wolseleys are known to survive and are in the author’s collection."

One manufactured by E. Day, St Alban's is shown in the link, it's badged and named to the KSLI, 1915.

Jelly Terror 10-02-19 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen (Post 468379)
Aha - a St Alban's manufactured straw FSH.
A quick Google rather than a trip to check Peter Sucui and Stuart Asquith's books -
http://www.militarysunhelmets.com/20...lseley-helmets

"Only two straw Wolseleys are known to survive and are in the author’s collection."

One manufactured by E. Day, St Alban's is shown in the link, it's badged and named to the KSLI, 1915.

Nice one, Leigh.

BROOKIES 10-02-19 08:36 AM

As I think it's the same or close to the DNW helmet, listing below.

Brecknockshire Battalion WWI Period Tropical Helmet, a very rare example retailed by ‘E. Day, St. Albans, 1918’ complete with quilted buff coloured cotton pagri and sewn in pagri Div. sign being green with central white stripe (the green now faded), to the front the Brecknockshire Battalion cap badge in die stamped gilding metal, internally complete with original leather sweat band and green canvas lining to the peaks, War Office internal stamping ‘162/Wbroad arrowD/O’, leather chin strap mostly present but fractured in two places, some fraying to the cotton pagri cloth but generally very good condition for age £300-500

Ta

Jonathan

Jelly Terror 10-02-19 08:44 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by BROOKIES (Post 468381)
As I think it's the same or close to the DNW helmet, listing below.

Brecknockshire Battalion WWI Period Tropical Helmet, a very rare example retailed by ‘E. Day, St. Albans, 1918’ complete with quilted buff coloured cotton pagri and sewn in pagri Div. sign being green with central white stripe (the green now faded), to the front the Brecknockshire Battalion cap badge in die stamped gilding metal, internally complete with original leather sweat band and green canvas lining to the peaks, War Office internal stamping ‘162/Wbroad arrowD/O’, leather chin strap mostly present but fractured in two places, some fraying to the cotton pagri cloth but generally very good condition for age £300-500

Ta

Jonathan

Here is a snap of the underside, though there’s not much to see. The display stand it’s mounted on obscrures any chance at seeing a maker mark and other detail.

Toby Purcell 10-02-19 08:46 AM

The Brecknockshire Regt became a VB of the South Wales Borderers and it is that regiment’s ‘green-white-green’ flash on the side of the helmet. Unlike the Monmouth’s the Brecknock’s always retained their close association with the SWB.

Hoot 10-02-19 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror (Post 468377)
Hoot, that’s a really good question.

In the C19th, straw hat making was a major trade in St. Albans, with over forty factories in the town. At the outbreak of the Great War, the companies that thrived were those who were willing to adapt their skills. Companies such as E. Day & Co. began to produce helmets like the Brecknockshire example on display in the museum.

I have no idea if the example on display was manufactured by a St. Albans hat maker, and I suppose a Wolseley bedecked with the insignia of a Herts unit might be deemed more appropriate for display. Then again, the fact that the this was not a Herts unit got your puzzler whirring and generated more info.

JT

Thanks for that JT, I am now feeling somewhat embarrassed. Being fairly local to St. Albans, 13 miles up the A5, I had completely overlooked the St. Albans hat trade. Being from the Luton area we were taught all about the hat trade at school and about it's importance to Luton and the surrounding area. My only excuse is old age and absent-mindedness. Yours, the Mad Hatter.


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