RNVR, RNCVR, RANVR others
 

:confused:Request help:
RNVR, RNCVR cap badges had a KC.
The RINVR, however, had a cap badge with a naval crown ( described
as a brig, end on, flanked by two half brigs ) The RIN had a KC cap badge.

Did any other R-VR cap badge ever have a naval crown ?

Have a RNVR spoon ( attd pic ) with a naval crown - as on RN ship crests.

RNVR, RCNVR, RANVR others
 

This is a very interesting question because, as far as I'm aware, all RNVRs around the Commonwealth wore/wear Kings/Queens Crowns on their badges.

All the pictures I have seen of Royal Indian Navy (RIN) or Royal Indian Naval Volunteer Reserve (RINVR) personnel show them wearing the appropriate King';s Crown naval badge.

Where did you come across this information regarding the RINVR? And was it dated?

I have attached a couple of images of Sub-Lieutenants in the RINVR. The first is of Sub-Lieutenant Hamidullah Khan Burki RINVR and is dated February 1943, The second is of Sub-Lieutenant P.E. Jenner RINVR. Both are wearing a King's Crown cap badge.

Pete

RNVR, RCNVR, RANVR others
 

Here's a better version of the picture of Sub-Lt. Burki.

Pete

[QUOTE=pinfrin;365997]:confused:Request help:
RNVR, RNCVR cap badges had a KC.

Did any other R-VR cap badge ever have a naval crown ?

QUOTE]

You have the RNCVR & RCNVR mixed up here - which is quite normal, it happens regularly.

The RNCVR was the Canadian branch of the RNVR during the 1WW period. It ceased to exist in early 1919, after war's end.

The RCNVR was established in 1923 & continued until merging with the RCNR post 2WW, in 1946.

Both RNCVR & RCNVR had distinctive KC cap badges, altho the RCNVR lettering was dropped at the beginning of 2WW.

The 'naval crown' was never worn by any unit of the Canadian Navy.

Bryan

The South African division of the RNVR, which existed from 1913 to 1949, also wore cap badges with the KC.

In the British tradition, cap/uniform badges have the royal crown, and ships' badges have the naval crown. The emblem on the teaspoon appears to be a unit badge of some kind (possibly unofficial), rather than a cap badge.

It's possible that the RINVR replaced the royal crown with their own naval crown during the period when India was a dominion (1947-50) and the reserve was still "royal".

RINVR
 

Thanks, I stand corrected. KC it is.

I have some photos of the 1941-45 period.
One taken at HMIS Adyar on 12 Sep 1941 shows an RINVR officer
wearing a cap badge with a distressed / attenuated crown 'approximating'
a naval crown. Will look around if this insignia was a one off or elsewhere too.
Some photos in the RIN (1612 - 1950), IN (1945-1950), PN
(1947-1972 ) books are not too clear.

Here is a supposedly RIM/RIN cap badge from the pre 1950 period,
how accurate this badge is I cannot say but thought might mention in this topic:

Bryan

Hi Bryan

Must admit that this is a new one on me! Very interesting. It resembles the old dockyard police badge for overseas dockyards - with the addition of the scroll bearing the word 'India'. Perhaps it was the insignia of Indian Dockyard Police?

I have attached an image of the standard Dockyard Police badge I was thinking of.

Pete

Whatever the badge represents Pete it sold for 68 Pounds or approx C$120, quite a good price realized I would say!

Be nice if someone might be able to ID it positively,

Bryan

A good price indeed! There have been one or two examples of this badge on ebay recently. Other than being 'naval' and 'Indian' no-one seems to know anything about it.

Hopefully someone will identify it one day.

Pete

RIN
 

Seems to be a CPO / PO Cap badge 1933 to 25 Jan 1950 (?) Sold cheap !

Will trace it some day.

It's not that I'm afraid! Chiefs and POs in the RIN wore the same badges as their RN counterparts.

Here is a picture of Chief Ordnance Artificer P. C. Mascarenhas DSM RIN. As you can see he is clearly wearing the standard Chiefs cap badge. These continued to be worn until India became a republic in 1950.

One day we'll know the answer!

Pete

I have acquired a pattern 47, RN officers cap badge with a makers label to the rear. M Salmon & Brothers, Ludhiaha N. India.
I am sure it was made for the local Indian Navy but would also have been available at the military outfitters for other Commonwealth Navy Officers to buy.
This may answer some of the question in the above posts.
(I don't know how to post images on this site)
Barry

As you say, this was probably made for the Royal Indian Navy but could have been worn by an officer of almost any Commonwealth navy as Royal Navy cap badges and rank/rate insignia were (at this time anyway) standard throughout the Commonwealth.

Indian officers adopted Royal Navy cap badges in 1934 when the Indian naval service changed from being the Royal Indian Marine and became the Royal Indian Navy. They continued to wear the same uniforms, badges, buttons and insignia (and flew the White Ensign) following independence and the Royal Indian Navy continued until India became a republic in 1950. It was only after this that Indian naval insignia changed. Somewhat confusingly the Royal Pakistan Navy (established following partition in 1947) also continued to wear the same uniforms and insignia (and flew the White Ensign) until Pakistan became a republic in 1956!

So your cap badge could have been worn by a British, Indian or Pakistani naval officer! An interesting find.

Pete

Here is a button to the mystery badge. It is flat, 14 mm and was made by Pitt & Co, Maddox St London.