Badge with image of grandfather in uniform
 

Hi, hope someone can help me.

I have a round metal badge that has a pale blue background with a cepia image of my grandfather in uniform on it.

Does anyone know why this would have been made? He was in the Signal Section 3/17th Battalion London Regiment during WW1.

Hope to hear from someone who can enlighten me.

Many thanks in anticipation.

Mandy

Hi Mandy,

Is there any chance of posting a picture and a quick description for now to get me thinking, I collect London Regiment so may be able to help.

If he was in the 17th Bn he would have been in the Poplar and Stepney Rifles. Which was either a blackened brass or brass badge which consisted of a rifle brigade pattern cross contained within a laurel wreath bearing the honours South Africa on top and bottom cross arms respectively and the dates 1899 / 1902 on the left and right cross arm respectively. On the inner circle of the cross reads the rifle brigade with a bugle surmounted by a Kings crown at the very centre. The whole badge has a Kings crown sitting at the top.

I will post a picture to see if its the right one

Cheers,

Luke

It sounds like a sweetheart broach that he would have given to your grandmother to wear.

Alan

Does this badge look about right?

Cheers,

Luke

Alan

Thanks for that - I had heard of a sweetheart broach, but didn't know what it was. Grandad was only 16 when he joined up in 1914 (lied about his age), so he wasn't married to Gran at the time. Maybe a girlfriend, or his mum may have worn it??

I am trying to piece together the military history of my family, so thought that starting with medals & badges would be a good start. So pleased that I found your forum!!!

Thanks again

Mandy

Luke

You have answered a question that I haven't even asked yet - thank you!!!!

I was wanting to know about the badge with my grandads image on, which I have found out is a sweetheart broach. But you spotted that he was in the 17th battalion & went onto describe another badge that I have.
The badge I have fits both your description & photo. It isn't the blackened one, but it is not as shiney as the one in your photo - perhaps it just needs a clean, or am I best to leave it as it is?

As I have no knowledge whatsoever about badges, I presumed that the 1899 - 1902 South Africa badge must have belonged to my gt grandad, as grandad wasn't born until 1898. I thought it had a connection to the Boer War - how wrong could I be?

So was this cap badge worn by all that served in the 17th Battalion London Regt? Have you got anymore info about the Poplar & Stepney Rifles - were they just a small part of the 17th Battalion?

I am trying to find out all the military history of my family, what regt they were in, where they served, what medals they received etc.

Grandad joined up in 1914 at the age of 16 (lied about his age). I only found what regt he was in from the inscription on the side of his British War medal & Victory medal. Which stated 17 - LOND R. I have since found a photo that says Signal Section 3/17th Battalion London Regt. He also had the SWB. He never talked about his time in the war.

Do you know whether the 17th battalion may have been attached alongside the Scots Guards? I have another badge that was amongst his possessions, which I think is Scots Guards, but not confirmed.

Sorry for bombarding you with questions. I would appreciate the help, but if you can't don't worry. Just finding out about the badge was more than I expected.

Thanks again.

Mandy

Hi Mandy,

Whether you clean it or not is up to you and depends what you want to do with it, if you were selling it (which I hope your not as its obviously a treasured possesion with a priceless family connection) I would say no. But if you wish to display it along with some of his other regimental regalia I certainly would not stop you as badges were made to be polised and shiney (blackened ones aside)... one thing I would ask is try not to polish the back.

No the badge was your grandads alright the date 1899-1902 is a battle honour awarded to that battalion for service in the Boer war and doesn't date the badge specifically, that particular pattern of badges was worn from 1908-37.

As for sevice besides a certain regiment rotation was such during the war that I'm pretty sure every regiment must have held the line next to/been in a rest area with/traveled besides pretty much every other regiment in the army so it is very possible. As for tracking down a date/area I'm sure it would be possible with some effort. It was/is common place for soldiers to swap badges so defining the specific place he got it could be hard.

The 17th battalion were the Poplar and Stepney Rifles (completely - the whole lot) which was also the area where they recruited from mainly- tho in war time you sometimes got put where you were needed (in WW2 my grandad was from Hackney so should have been in the Berkshire Regt as that was the only regiment near London with a spare battalion when the 10th Hackney Regiment got amalgamated, yet he got slung into the East Yorks as they were short on men!). Yes they would have all worn the type of cap badges shown, officers would have worn a bronze version. In '37 the battalion changed its name and they became the Tower Hamlets Rifles and the badge changed.

Scots Gds badges are brass stars set in a st andrews cross with a circular legend bearing the motto 'nemo me impune lasscit' and a thistle inside that.

Cheers,

Luke

Luke

Thanks for all the information. It is good to get some background information on the family.

My grandad was born, lived & died in Battersea, SW8. But according to family stories, he is believed to have gone to Essex to enlist - I have nothing to prove this.

From the details you have give, it does appear that the other badge I have is from the Scots Guards - having the latin motto, cross etc. Only difference is that it doesn't appear to be brass. It is quite shiny and seems to be some sort of alloy. It has JR Gaunt, London written on the reverse.

Regards
Mandy

Hi Mandy,
What was your Grandfathers name? I have access to Ancestry UK I would look up to see if his WW1 records survived if you have not already done so.
Regards
Bantam

Bantam

Thanks for the offer. I have looked at Ancestry & I couldn't find anything, but a different set of eyes sometimes helps. If you don't mind looking his details are as follows:

Private Percival Reginald (Percy) Stock 3418 Signal Section 3/17th Battalion London Regiment

Thank you ever so much for the offer.

Regards
Mandy

Hi Mandy'
I had a look but like you said no success.Due to the blitz so many of the soldiers records destroyed.Lets hope some more information will turn up.
Regards
Bantam

Mandy,
I just remembered there is a paperback out called"Boy Soldiers of the Great War" by Richard van Emden which covers a number of stories about the subject and a TV documentry made as well.
Regards
Bantam.

Bantam

Thank you so much for having a look. I had my fingers crossed that you may have found something, where I failed. I am hoping that his records haven't been destroyed, but just haven't been scanned from the archives by Ancestry yet. I live in hopes.
Also, thanks for the book info. I shall try & find it.

Many thanks again.

Mandy

Hi Mandy,
I was hoping that I would find something to.Unfortunately my Great Uncle George who was also under age when he joined the 18th Battalion The Welsh Regiment.He was badly wounded and whilst recuperating died of the flu pandemic the day before armistice 10/11/1918.
I tried to discover information re his war service records by hiring a researcher but because about 60% were lost due to German bombing during WW2 he was unable to find anything.I have since joined Ancestry UK and run checks on him and my grandfather to no avail.I did however discover my wifes grandfather's service record.It would appear there was more likelihood of the records surviving if the recipients surname was alphabetically early or late in the alphabet listing,due to the firemen being able to evacuate the documents.With your Grandfathers surname begining with "S" I am afraid that it is very unlikely to have survivied.
I wish I could inform you of better news.
Regards
Bantam

Bantam
Thanks for the info. I have been trying to look up various members of my family on Ancestry. I have been lucky in some areas & not in others. I keep hoping that the ones I am looking for will turn up eventually, but I think it is a pipe dream.

Mandy