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-   The Australian General Service Badge (Rising Sun) (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=66)
-   -   Rising sun cap badge (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84632)

henri 29-04-21 05:33 PM

Rising sun cap badge
 
3 Attachment(s)
Dear members ,

Just bought this Rising sun cap badge and would like to get some opinions .

Looks like a WW1 with the slider but I can t understand what is this kind of soldering , just on the Right hand side ?! May be a kind of missing pin welded for a display ...or a later model "arranged" into a WW1 ?? A fake ???
No maker .
I bought it for a WW1 but ....

Thank you for your comments .
Henry
Attachment 249549

Attachment 249550

Attachment 249551

Bill A 29-04-21 08:38 PM

Hello Henry, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts.

Jackhr 29-04-21 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henri (Post 547546)
Dear members ,

Just bought this Rising sun cap badge and would like to get some opinions .

Looks like a WW1 with the slider but I can t understand what is this kind of soldering , just on the Right hand side ?! May be a kind of missing pin welded for a display ...or a later model "arranged" into a WW1 ?? A fake ???
No maker .
I bought it for a WW1 but ....

Thank you for your comments .
Henry
Attachment 249549

Attachment 249550

Attachment 249551

Looks like a good WW1 badge , have no idea about the right side ?

Tweed 01-05-21 12:12 PM

A nice WW1 cap badge 100% , will check my badges later I might have the matching type

Lancer 17 01-05-21 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweed (Post 547687)
A nice WW1 cap badge 100% , will check my badges later I might have the matching type


Hi Tweed

The Rising Sun badge is a slouch HAT badge, these are too big to wear on a cap. The collar badge is always worn on the cap and on the ladies small sized "Slouch Hat", this is of a different pattern to the men's Slouch Hat.

Only the English made Tiptaft Rising Suns are maker marked, I have about half a dozen slidered English made Rising Suns and they all have the same shaped voids at the end of the name scrolls and I believe that they are all by the same unknown English maker. Australia does not make any badges that I know of on sliders , all old badges have 2 or 3 lugs and we now use the bloody awful sharp pins.

Hope that this helps.

Regards

Phil.

Tweed 01-05-21 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancer 17 (Post 547692)
Hi Tweed

The Rising Sun badge is a slouch HAT badge, these are too big to wear on a cap. The collar badge is always worn on the cap and on the ladies small sized "Slouch Hat", this is of a different pattern to the men's Slouch Hat.

Only the English made Tiptaft Rising Suns are maker marked, I have about half a dozen slidered English made Rising Suns and they all have the same shaped voids at the end of the name scrolls and I believe that they are all by the same unknown English maker. Australia does not make any badges that I know of on sliders , all old badges have 2 or 3 lugs and we now use the bloody awful sharp pins.

Hope that this helps.

Regards

Phil.

Ofcourse hahah
I shall ban myself from using the term cap badge in future and use the correct term of slouch hat badge
Tweed just got kiboshed hahah

slick_mick 01-05-21 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweed (Post 547694)
Ofcourse hahah
I shall ban myself from using the term cap badge in future and use the correct term of slouch hat badge
Tweed just got kiboshed hahah

I believe a small Rising Sun badge (collar badge) was worn on peak caps in WW1 (early war).

Mick

trueblue 02-05-21 03:14 AM

Because of the Construction of the Quilted Cor Blimey caps..These having no Internal Leather Liner
Only the Large Rising Sun Hat badge with SLIDER was used
Without the protection of the Leather Liner
Lugged badges would protude inside the Cap and Rub against the Forehead
GM

Tweed 02-05-21 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slick_mick (Post 547722)
I believe a small Rising Sun badge (collar badge) was worn on peak caps in WW1 (early war).

Mick

Great information Mick,
This is truely a massive subject ! And now I will look at my collars because they could have been used on the caps
Kind regards Chay

Tweed 02-05-21 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueblue (Post 547730)
Because of the Construction of the Quilted Cor Blimey caps..These having no Internal Leather Liner
Only the Large Rising Sun Hat badge with SLIDER was used
Without the protection of the Leather Liner
Lugged badges would protude inside the Cap and Rub against the Forehead
GM


Makes sense
Great name for a cap the Cor blimey :))))

Tweed 02-05-21 04:12 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by henri (Post 547546)
Dear members ,

Just bought this Rising sun cap badge and would like to get some opinions .

Looks like a WW1 with the slider but I can t understand what is this kind of soldering , just on the Right hand side ?! May be a kind of missing pin welded for a display ...or a later model "arranged" into a WW1 ?? A fake ???
No maker .
I bought it for a WW1 but ....

Thank you for your comments .
Henry
Attachment 249549

Attachment 249550

Attachment 249551

I have two,examples of the non voided crown slouch hat badge that match your minus extra soldering,
Kind regards Chay

Jack8 03-05-21 04:23 PM

Is it possible that some Tiptaft badges were produced with the slider unmarked, as the badge at the start of this thread appears to be made from the same die as a slider marked Tiftaft in my opinion?

Tweed 03-05-21 05:00 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I have three of these example with voided crown and I would be interesting to get to the bottom of possible maker

kingsley 04-05-21 04:51 AM

There were a few different UK rising sun badge makers in WW1, but only a few were clearly maker marked. I have a clearly marked Firmin rising sun hat and collar badge and have seen an extensive list of makers somewhere from both world wars, including British, but it would take a week of research to find it. Maybe it is available on line somewhere.
The WW1 oxodised Gaunt badge can be indentified (although unmarked) because it is clearly the same leftover die that Gaunt originally produced in 1904 for the first ever ACMF badges, made in gilt, stg silver, bronze, and silver/gilt/enamel. There is a gilt badge illustrated on the Forum somewhere
on my Gaunt sample card from around 1908.

Lancer 17 12-05-21 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweed (Post 547945)
I have three of these example with voided crown and I would be interesting to get to the bottom of possible maker

Hi Tweed

The makers of English made Rising Suns has been discussed here several times.

As Ive said, have a look at the shapes of the voids at the end of the name scrolls and group you badges by this method.

Tiptaft did have at least 2 dies, one with no name on the back of the badge its self but a small 2 line stamping on the back of the slider and one with both the back of the badge stamped as part of the original badge in a curve on the flat section on the left side of the crown and also with the 2 line stamping on the slider as above.

I have 1 of each the one with the double naming is from a family member and comes with his medals and other badges etc.

I have 6 slirered Rising Suns in addition to the Tiptaft 2.and they are all different but all measure 61 or 2 mm across the longer name scroll.

I will list them as follows

1, Brass with the high sections rubbed, voided crown and slightly different shaped voids above the long scroll, domed badge.
2, Copper colour, voided crown, voids above the long name scroll not punched out, clipped slider, flat badge.
3, Copper colour, non voided crown, different shaped voids above the long scroll, flattish badge.
4, Copper colour, voided crown, 2 different shaped voids above long scroll, flat badge.
5. Blackened brass, non voided crown, matching quite large voids above the long scroll. domed badge.
6, Blackened brass, voided crown, irregular voids above long scroll, flat badge.

Tiptaft marked.
1,Blackened brass, non voided crown, regular matching voids above long scroll, flat badge. name stamped in 2 lines of very small lettering on the slider.
2,Family collection badge, blackened brass, non voided crown, flat badge, voids above long scroll as in above badge. naming Tiptaft to the flat rear section to the left of the slider and also stamped in 2 lines on the slider as above.

I also have 2 collar badges marked Tiptaft B'ham one in polished / rubbed brass, non voided crown and 2 small voids above the long scroll, the naming on the flats at the rear and either side of the crown and the other blackened brass , non voided crown, 2 small voids above the ends of the long scroll. Naming as above. About 38mm wide.

Shoulder titles.
1 Brass, curved as usual, 55mm wide across the 2 lower ends, name stamped in very small letters at the base of the T and R of Australia. 2 lugs.
2,Blackened brass, 54mm wide as above, naming as above.2 lugs.
3, Blackened brass, 54mmwide as above. naming as above, 2 lugs.

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Phil.


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