You have got me thinking now! I will check Chris Marsh's book when I get home.

Alan

Chris shows a Dowler marked badge from the early 1960s so I stand corrected and they were authorised for the TA. The 1st Bn wore the SWB badge in 1959 and then changed to the Welsh bde badge soon after.

Hi
Christs College Brecon CCF were SWB badged 1947 until 1969 then RRW
They may have worn AA.
Paul

Hi Alan,

I'm away from home at the mo so all this by memory but yes, SWB was authorised and genuine ones are by Dowler. They are scarce though. The images shown of the SWB and Welch are knock offs made by Gaunt and sold in the 1980's.

The rule of thumb with cadet forces is that, at least during the AA era, ACF and CCF were affiliated to their local TA battalion and wore the same badge the TA battalion wore which was not always the same badge that the regular battalion wore. Remember, while many regular battalions wore the Brigade badge some TA battalions were 'relegated' to the Regiment's badge hence such arguments over that such and such a AA badge is fake because the regiment wore the Brigade badge at the time forgetting that the TA battalion did not.

The badge worn by the CCF/ACF units could and did change over time. However, CCF at least could have their own badge if OK'ed by (if I remember) the controlling ACF authorities of the day and not by the Army Dress Committee.

In modern day one school has recently recieved official authorisation from the Army Dress Committee to wear a badge of their own design in 'New Metal'. I found no info of ADC authorising a design for ACF/CCF during the A/A era although while in the National Archives researching my book I came across lists of school CCF showing the TA battalions they were affiliated to and the badges they wore be it the school badge or the TA battalion badge.

These lists was from the 1960's and for the North West of England and may also have been for the North East of England.

Regards,

Chris

Thanks for clearing this up guys.

Hi Alan,

With regards to the East Yorks anodised aluminium cap badge, does the real badge normally have a blank slider?
I recently found one which is gold anodised with a blank slider and I’m unsure if it’s genuine.

Cheers

Stew

Stew

It was a design that was not authorised for production. The regiment merged in 1958 before an a/a badge was issued to them. Both the Regular and TA Bns wore the new badge. If you have seen a die struck badge with a blank slider then it's likely to be a repro.

Alan

Good post.

Wow, I didn’t know that

The majority of pre 1958 infantry cap badges were sealed for the TA battalions in the 1960s who continued to wear the old pattern after the Regular Battalions had adopted the Brigade badges. Where the TA Bns had adopted a bespoke TA design, such as Queen's Surreys, Yorkshires, Bedfordshire, Suffolks then the badges were not required.

There were some badges, such as the Cameronians and York and Lancaster, that were worn by cadets long after 1968 well into the 1980's.

A reply to what may be seen as an old thread.....

My friend was a Tank Driver in the QDG. He told me that the cavalry regiments tended to give the A/A cap badges to the recruits, but once they qualified then a metal/brass one was issued and the A/A ones were handed back....except those which were broken.

My friend served from the 70's into the 80's, but he's adamant that the "Welsh Cavalry" still adhere to the same system.

I asked about the other units and he stated that from what he recalls, all of them wore the A/A badge! The reason is because it was seen as a "buggerence" factor as the badges kept breaking....especially the lancers! hence, when they qualified a more robust one was used.

I was based in Tidworth in 1980 and the QRIH were the resident cavalry unit. Their cap badges were a mixture of A/A and metal ones....some of the guys would buy the metals ones if they lost or broke their issued one...they actually bought them from the stores!

I wore a R Sigs cap badge for a while...the A/A version....the bases broke off with regularity! I would often see, as I have done myself, guys walking round with half a cap badge as the base was usually snagged on a pocket, twig or anything!

I saw the thread about the E Yorks Regt A/A badge...I have one and only bought it as there was a big discussion so many years ago as to whether they were made and issued, made for the museum or were ever made at all... the museum stated that they had never ordered any for their shop....I never came to a conclusion, so be prepared...buy one just in case!

There are many who only collect badges with makers marks...I get that...but I have seen soldiers wearing badges with NO makers marks! (27 years service) I know, because I often tried to blag one! The problem is that even ones with makers marks may not be correct.

I was also told that some units who "moved on" from A/A badges gave them to the local cadet forces to use. This was to help with the recruitment into the Regular arm but also to make good use of the old stock.

At the end of the day....it's all down to the individual collector and what their preference is.

Regards,
Paul

What you say about the QDG rings true with me. They were one of the first regiments to go back to wearing metal rather than anodised badges. The chrome version was issued pretty quickly after the reintroduction of metal badges.

As I recall QDG were wearing chrome badges back in the 80's, possibly 70's?

17/21 Lancers were wearing chrome by the late 70's, one of their sergeants gave me a chromed badge in 1979, explaining that anod all were issued but that purchased chrome ones had to be worn.

I'm pretty sure that's a similar thing to what the QDGs did. Sketchley and Mac will advise on the QDG and 17/21 respectively I'm sure.

The same thing happened with the Lpl Scots. They were issued with AA badges in 1965, so they gave them to the cadets. The Bn then went and got an Asian manufacturer to provide "proper" WM badges - however, that company (I don't know exactly who) then made A versions !!!!

https://gnmilitaria.co.uk/shop.php?c...18#prettyPhoto

Fife & Forfar with an S&W mark added - post manufacture in my opinion.

Buyer beware.

Stamp is incorrect for the period of time it supposed to represent.
Unless of course there was a real shortage of badges and it was shared between Trp Smith and Trp Wright

Its100% wrong. Its the usual moody example we know, but someone has had a go at livening it it up with an S&W mark - poorly executed and incorrect anyway.

What's 'moody' Bess? Have I missed smtg here?

SO QED - the West Yorkshire A/A is also unauthorised?

Chris Marsh's research did not find any evidence that West Yorkshire Regt was officially authorised for production See Page 148 and Appendix 8 Non Authorised cap badges.

Thanks for this

William, 'moody' means 'iffy' or suspect

"Moody" is from Cockney rhyming slang and is often used to refer to something that is dodgy or stolen.

Dwight L Moody (1837-1899) and Ira D Sankey (1840-1908) were American evangelists who attracted vast audiences to their revivalist meetings in the USA and on their visits to Britain.

It seems not everyone trusted them ! ;)

.

Thanks - I haven't yet availed myself of the book

Andy

Alan,

I know this is an older thread but is this a copy of an authorised badge rather than a "not authorised for production" badge?

Mike,
Post #5, Loyal suffolk hussars, he says its unofficial which i think is wrong, rather it appears to be 80's copy

It is not authorised for production so a fake rather than a copy. This design was never officially made in a/a.

Alan, apart from the colour of the scroll, it is the same as this one? though the example you show has the mirror reverse and no makers mark typical of the 80's copies/fakes whilst this one has the correct reverse

That is the small all gold badge that was issued only in a/a.

The fakes are gold and silver a/a in the large size that were issued only in all brass and bi-metal.

Thank you Alan, i could not tell the size from your post.

added the other version for comparison

Is this real, a prototype or someone pulling a fast one?
 

Just bought this off Ebay (didn't pay too much) a NCO sleeve badge in A/A on a slider. Think the M/M is Dowler but it has something else in brackets that I can't make out. Does anyone know what this could be, not been able to find any info on it? Not received it yet, so not been able to get good shots of it. Thanks
Attachment 282937

B'ham?

WM.DOWLER (B'HAM) :confused:

Thanks guys. Has anyone come across this sleeve badge before with a slider?

Its been said that the band i believe wore them on the Cap . It has been mentioned before.
These arent a very common item . The Wm Dowler (Bham) mark was a short lived one,Dowler Birmingham is far more common on anodised badges.

I'll check my notes, but yes believed for the Torin cap. I'll try and find the source.

They are not common.

Thanks Mike, very much appreciated. You wouldn't know what time scale would be.

Thanks Bess. Very much appreciated the imput.