Royal Irish Fusiliers (K&K 693) Coronet Size
 

Hello All

Looking through K&K Vol 1 (K&K 693) and Gaylor (Plate 19) the early 1900s Royal Irish Fusiliers badge is depicted with 2 different sized coronets. Can anyone please tell me what the correct size of coronet was, the small one (standard size) shown in K&K or the larger type shown in Gaylor's book.

Many thanks

Paddy

Paddy, I believe that the smaller coronet was the standard pattern and used both on head dress and officers collars too. The larger coronet was part of the pipers big badge that was worn on their caubeen.

Paddy

the large coronet approx. 18.8mm wide, 33.4mm high SPN 2648 sealed Oct 13 1890 was for the collar badge pair.

It was later authorized (the coronet only) for use on the FSC in place of the RA Grenade (WO 359/6/34&35).

The Smaller Coronet approx 11.5 x 26.5mm made its appearance in SPN 4475 sealed 12/01/1897. This being the first regimental pattern FSC & FSH badge (this grenade had the eagle on the ball).

SPN 4475A sealed 02/03/1903 for the Brodrick (K&K 639) I think continued the use of this smaller coronet but the grenade got much larger to accomodate the Harp & Plumes device. In other words I think K&K are correct but am not fully certain. I think this because the smaller coronet was sealed for the FSC before this pattern was introduced and was again used after this pattern was abandoned

This commentry from 61002/Infy/763 28/5/1902 [WO359 vol 12 p 58] refers.

With reference to the adoption of the “Harp & Plume” as the mount for the badge of the new pattern forage cap for wear by officers of the Royal Irish Fusiliers and to inform you that steps are being taken in the matter, but it is feared that some little difficulty will be experienced in placing the mount on the present sized grenade of the pugaree badge which may result in a slight enlargement of the grenade. It is intended that the badge shall answer for both pugaree and forage cap. A further communication will be sent in due course .


The change to SPN 4475B sealed 18/07/1906 "cemented" the smaller pattern coronet for use with forage cap badges (the grenade getting smaller that the Brodrick pattern)

Thus to sum up(in my opinion) large Coronet mainly used in the collar badge pair, used for a while in the FSC. Possibly used for the Brodrick (need to check) and as Tony points out used a version of it on the pipers badge.

Small Coronet used on first regimental pattern FSC and on the (peaked) Forage cap badges from c. 1906 on.

I can post images later to help if necessary.

John

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...liers+brodrick

Toby & John

Many thanks for your (very comprehensive) replies. A picture would be nice to see John but from what you have said it appears that this is the correct combination in the pic I have attached.

Many thanks again

Paddy

Superb information as always John. I do hope you will publish something on Irish Regimental badges one day. You are the right man to do it.

This interests me greatly Paddy as the grenade was obviously used for both RWF and RIF, but with a different silver device overlaid. In the RWF we were taught it was our badge because of the 23 points to the outer flame (as in 23rd Foot). Very interesting to see that the 87th/89th wore it too in some forms of head dress.

Toby

I didn't even think to compare the RWF and RIF badges, I suppose it would have made the RIF badge a bit too big to give it 87 or 89 flames :rolleyes:

Paddy

It would perhaps explain why that particular pattern of grenade was not used for that long by the RIF.

Paddy

Since we first had this discussion these two images have appeared showing the small coronet with "Brodrick Badge", the second intriguingly shows the badge in use in service dress during the Great War by a member of the 9th service Bn.

John

Amazing John! Thank you.

Now to find a picture of a curly scroll Leinster being worn!