French para wings, opinions please.
 

Two French para wings from ebay, I would like to have your opinions.

The first one was ended early, the seller cancelled a €860 bid. The second one had a €125 buy it now, it was also ended early.

While not an expert myself. I do not get a warm fuzzy feeling on wing number one. The thread is heavy and the back is too messy. Second wing unsure however it does not look like any I have seen.

These are not original.

Agree with Irish on the first wing — messy embroidery on the reverse is usually a sign of a Pakistan-made fake. Originals of this first-style FFL para wing have a different backing material too.

I believe the second wing is a reproduction, a fairly good one, of the second-issue FFL para wing originally made in France in 1945. The originals of this wing are embroidered on fabric with a distinctive diagonal ribbed weave, rather than flat felt. Somewhere I have a photo comparing side by side an original and this repro. If I can find it, I’ll post it to this thread.

Best regards,
Donovan

My Original French made , 1944/45 I believe.

Here's the side-by-side comparison photo I mentioned. Arrestingu, looks to me like you have a good one!

Best regards,
Donovan

I can only speak for British made types of which there are two

Firstly one I own myself see attached image

And a second type which sold on eBay recently

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-VI...5-da4b81349dc4


The first wing Luc has pictured I do not like the front or the back

Thanks guys for the pictures and explanations!

What is the story of the wartime French made badges? Surely made underground or at some risk? And how did these make their way back to the UK? And what was the need for them as I assume the troops wearing them would be based in England?

Thanks

Jack,
These badges were made and distributed in England around 1942/43 and apparently distributed to the French SAS based at the Camberley camp.
Pierre

Hey Pierre

Thanks! But my question is about the French made pieces. I just don’t understand how they would have been made of why they were made?

Jack

Hello Jack, hope all is well with you. I don't know the history of the second-version French wing well enough to answer your question, no doubt other Forum members have some expertise on this one and will weigh in.

As you say, I've seen the first-version wing with two different backings -- I have an example with the tan buckram backing, and I saw the other one you mention that was on eBay recently, with black fabric backing. In Christian Macros' book "Insignes de l'Armee Francaise: les Troupes Aeroportees," this version is shown as photo 0212b on page 59, and he describes originals as being designed by Captain Georges Berge in 1942 to replace the metal badge (photo 0208) previously worn by 1 CCP, and issued in 1943 to all French personnel breveted at Ringway Central Landing School. I also have the metal version, photo 0212a, originals described by Macros as having first been made at Aldershot (no further info, beyond the note that these wings had no markings on the reverse). Other variations of the metal wing were made later in Ceylon and Indochina, according to Gilbert Lafleur and Harry Pugh's book "French Parachutist Brevets," page 25.

I've not seen firsthand an original of the second-version wing, only a few photos and passing references to it. In Christian Macros' same book, it is shown as photo 0212d on page 59, and described as made in France (no further info). He also cites a reproduction of the same wing that was made in 1977 by M. Richard -- I have one of these, purchased in the mid-1980's when I first started collecting para wings. Alas, it corresponds exactly with the Richard copy shown in the photo I posted earlier.

My apologies, but I don't recall where I saw the reference to the second-version wing as being made in 1945; somewhere in the course of researching the WW2-era wings over the past 30 years. If I find the reference, I'll add to this post. I don't recall it being described as a 1944/45 wing, only 1945. With the expansion of FFL airborne and commando units in late 1944/early 1945 that occurred as they incorporated FFI volunteers and drove into Germany, I assume there may have been a need and capability in free France in early 1945 to manufacture more wings, beyond the original batches of wings that were made and issued in the UK in 1943-44. Also could have been a victory parade issue, I suppose.

Looking forward to hearing more about these wings from other Forum members.

Best regards,
Donovan

Very useful information Donovan on the history of the British made ones, thank you.

The lack of information regarding the French made type makes me think
...Are there any pictures of it being worn or being worn in WW2 or post WW2?

My personal opinion these French made types were made post May 1945 and issued to those troops who were entitled to wear them as replacements, Victory parade etc. I just wouldn’t spend any serious money on acquiring the French made type as I don’t personally think they are wartime made or combat used. Sorry if anyone here owns one I might be incorrect!

Jack

You could be right, Jack. I don't recall seeing any wartime photos that show the second wing being worn. My understanding is that French paras who were sent to Indochina after 1945 continued to wear the FFL wing, adopting locally made versions and eventually substituting a star for the Cross of Lorraine. If any other Forum members have photos that would show WW2 use of the second-version wing, it would be much appreciated, and it would fill in a big missing piece of the story. I'll continue to look for such a photo too.

In any case, arrestingu, your example looks like an original of an older French para wing, and a fine addition to any para collection. I'd be proud to have an original one in my collection, it would just be a matter of deciding which case to feature it in: good WW2 para wings, or good French para insignia! A good dilemma to have, I'd say. Well done.

Best regards,
Donovan

Hi Donovan,

This is the battle dress of Sgt.-chef George Caitucoli 3rdSAS who took part in Operations in Holland in April 1945 hence 1945 appears a correct reference.

Cheers

JB