2/5th Essex Battalion, 8th Indian Division Insignia
 

I am creating an authentic infantry uniform as would have been worn by my grandfather:

Pte 6019942 JW Morris
2/5th Bn. Essex Regiment
18th Indian Infantry Bde.
8th Indian Div.
North Africa 1941-1942

I have an original WD issued shirt, shorts and equipment as would have been worn in North Africa, and also the following cloth insignia:

1) two printed formation badges of the 8th Indian division.
https://www.mcgregor.uk.net/wp-conte...dianDivFS2.jpg
2) two printed Essex regiment shoulder titles
http://britishmilitarybadges.e2ecdn....5&scale=canvas
3) two 8th army badges too.
https://worldwarwonders.co.uk/wp-con...1/DSC_0693.jpg

Evidence say that the division was transferred to the 10th Army - so is this correct to have 8th army insignia?
Do I need infantry flashes?
Were there any insignia worn (or even produced) for the 18th Indian Infantry Brigade?

I am not sure how/where/if these insignia would have been worn on the shirt either away from the front line or in combat. (Indeed would insignia have been worn in combat?)

Can anyone show me how/where they would have been worn?

My granddad was captured on 1st July 1942 where the whole battalion was destroyed, and he spent the rest of the war interned in Italy and subsequently in Stalag IVG near Dresden. The decimation of the 2/5th led to it being disbanded in November 1942

Hope it won't be disappointing but at the dates you give your grandfather would probably have not worn any insignia on his khaki drill uniform.

Formation signs were not authorised for use in the Middle East until October 1942, after your grandfather was captured so would not have worn either the 8th Army or the Indian divisional signs. Brigades which formed part of divisions such as 18th Indian were not entitled to signs of their own as they wore the divisional sign when it was introduced. There is no evidence of the 8th Indian Divisional sign in use until the campaign in Italy.

A contemporary file on the introduction of formation signs for those outside Britain contains the following quote

"I am unconvinced by the esprit de corps argument. Middle East Forces seem to be able to keep up the morale of their chaps without any badges or signs of any sort.’ Director of Staff Duties to Director of Personal Services – 2nd August 1941

Red and white titles such as you show did not appear in Britain until 1943 and were never issued in wartime to units in the Middle East or Italy although some locally made versions appeared as the attached combination worn by 1st/4th Essex in Italy shows.

Hope that's not too disappointing.

Jon

Thanks Postwarden,

Thank you for your knowledge. Its a little disappointing as I wont be able to adorn the outfit with badges, but, if that was the way it was, then I shall take your advice.:)

I am awaiting some details from the army personnel centre to get more information, because last night, after receiving a copy of Essex Regiment 1929 to 1950 - Col T.A. Martin,
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/x9AAA...To/s-l1600.jpg
I could track the movements of the 2/5th battalion.

Everyone remembers my grandfather talking about Syria, Damascus, Palestine and Baghdad. The Martin book clearly shows these tours did not come until after the capture date, so we are thinking that perhaps grandad wasn't captured on 1st July 1942 and when onto the 1/5th Bn which did go to Iraq, Mosul, Syria and Palestine.

So the plot thickens and once i can confirm his movements from July 42, I may be able to refer closer to your information.

Many thanks anyway. Ill keep you posted.

Interesting book. Good luck with the research. Do keep us posted.

Jon

I have had some info from my uncle. My Grandad died in 1996 so being 25, I wasnt mature enough to have the interests, I do at 54 and didnt talk about this era to my grandad, but it turns out that my Grandad volunteered when an NCO blasted out" Can anyone ride a motorcycle?".

Even though he couldn't.... he was then made a dispatch rider where probably from Cairo he made trips into Syria, Palestine, Iraq sending dispatches, where I can only assume he was caught in some skirmishes or other shenanigans and sent to an Italian PoW.

I am still (!) awaiting MoD records under the freedom of information act to be released on my grandad's records, hopefully will confirm the anecdotal information above, but it certainly explains how from N Africa he got to the middle east before the Essex Regiment did.