British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum - RNAS? RAF? FAA of RAF? FRANKENSTEIN?

British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/index.php)

- Royal Navy and Royal Marines (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9)

- - RNAS? RAF? FAA of RAF? FRANKENSTEIN? (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18566)

RNAS? RAF? FAA of RAF? FRANKENSTEIN?

My first post, and would be glad of any help as all other forums have failed!!!

I know this isn't RNAS, and I've posted my two caps for comparison. But the dimensions, wool, visor and chinstrap are identical to the dress cap. Clearly inside is not of a WW1 pattern. The mystery hat has no stiffener and is of crusher style.

Is this made up or, perhaps, from that rare period 1919-1924 Warren Carroll mentions as still under investigation as to distinctives worn by ex-RNAS? Or is it Fleet Air Arm of the RAF 1924-1937?

Everything is very tightly sewn. Eagle does not appear to have been added recently.

Can't read the whole name.

I tried to collect Gieves labels for dating but all I could find were WW2 which this isn't.

Help and Rgds!

hi and welcome to the forum. can you post some pictures at all?

thanks

phil

very nice. i wonder if it was for raf on attachment to the rn. i am very interested to see what the forum say about it. there is slight difference in the pattern of the feathers, missing that single, central vertical one at the bottom.

regards

phil

Hmmmm....but apart from what people think about this...

What visor cap did the Fleet Air Arm of the Royal Air Force wear in 1924? Does ANYBODY know? Any photos out there?

John

Name is

WALKER

possibly, unlikely

WALKES

Rgds

Looks like a Navy badge with an RAF eagle attached to it in place of the anchor.....perhaps a FAA pilot wanted the eagle instead....but as it's most likely a personal variation it'd be impossible to prove unless there was a photo of the chap wearing the hat.
Just my 2 cents I s'pose

Do we have any photos of any hat in wear by FAA of RAF?

Do you think an ex-RNAS pilot would have been allowed to wear something non-regulation, even in the early days of the RAF?

Since the RAF is always fighting with the RN over the FAA, it would be odd if their cap and badge under the RAF's reign looked more like an RN cap then RAF...but I agree, apart from the anchor this looks most like a post-1937 FAA/RN cap.

Its a shame I didnt get this a day earlier, as I was in the Gieves archives on Friday!!

Looking at the badge its not Royal Naval Air Service and is clearly not Royal Navy, so its certainly not pre 1918. The FAA was the air arm of the Royal Navy, but after the First World War effectively all came under the RAF, and it was only later that the RN took responsibility and all RN flying came under the Admiralty. Throughout the 20s and 30s it seems that both RAF and RN officers were seconded for flying duties with the RN, with particular insignia to denote this. Its certainly not an RAF officer attached to the RN/FAA as mentioned above, the denoting insignia for that was a small gold wreath in bullion with a silver anchor centre, worn on the lower left cuff of the RAF uniform, above the rank, abolished about 1938. FAA and RN history isnt my strong point, but looking at the elements:

The peak of the cap isnt particularly small, so I think that rules out a WW1 era cap. The Gieves label is around the 1920s era but exactly when and to it was used is hard to say. The Royal Warrants - Gives and Hawkes (as they are now) have three the label on the cap indicates two (the one on the right is Prince of Wales the other might be the King or the Royal Household).

As for the badge, it is not RNAS, but RN with the eagle in place of the anchor denoting an Air Branch Officer. I think I have only seen one before and again would indicate the early 1920s to late 1930s. Its impossible to pin down more fully the dates as there is no indication when the officer might have worn it. For example, in the Gieves archive they have a WW2 RN battledress but with a 'crownless' wing, which was only worn 1924 to 1938. That indicates an officer serving in the FAA (or RN) during the war, but wearing the pre 1938 wing he was originally issued despite it being obsolete.

The cap and badge look genuine and original so I would guess its a cap for a Royal Navy Officer attached to the Fleet Air Arm anywhere during the 1920s or possibly into the mid to late 1930s.

The cap and badge look genuine and original so I would guess its a cap for a Royal Navy Officer attached to the Fleet Air Arm anywhere during the 1920s or possibly into the mid to late 1930s.

Brilliant...never thought of that...!

There is no sign of wear, damage or fading where an anchor would have been so I think the eagle and the wreath have started life together.

Phil