1st VB Leicestershire Regiment 1881-1905.
 

Hi all,

At last the 1st VB Leicestershire Regiment WM ORs cap badge worn 1881-1905. Lugged and with Gaunt Birmingham plaque to rear. Most pleased. Now looking for the rarer 1905-1908 version with SA scroll replacing the 1st VB scroll.

Regards to all, Dean.

Very nice Dean..... did you find that in Oz?

No Griff sadly not this time - was happy to purchase from dealer in UK.

Have had a run on badges so stay tuned, regards Dean.

Very nice.

Leicesters 1st Vol. Bttn Badge
 

Hi Dean

Good to see the latest addition to your Leicesters’ collection, and a very nice example it is at that - well done. Much better than the Gladman & Norman reproductions that abound on ebay, such as this one which comes complete with a fake Lambourne & Co. mark on a slider!:


One thing about the date you have for your new badge though is that I think it should be 1902-1908, and not 1881-1905 as you have it. If you remember when you posted up your three lions badge, which the 1st Vol. Battn apparently wore before they adopted the tiger, you made reference to a work by Ray Westlake which gave the dates of that badge as 1895-1902 (incidentally if you could let me have this exact reference I’d be most grateful). I know that it was only from 1901 onwards that volunteer battalions were allowed to wear the cap badges of their parent regiments (see Julian’s posting here ), so 1902 as a start date for these white metal tigers would seem right.

Further, my understanding was that the 1st Vol. Battn badges with the ‘South Africa 1900.02’ top scroll, which as I noted here was only awarded in 1905, were actually officers’ badges - at least the only ones I’ve seen so far are officers’ ones! This does make me wonder what the officers wore before 1905? I suppose it might have been the same as your badge only with blades? Equally I’m not personally aware of any ORs’ badges with the ‘South Africa 1900.02’ on them, so assume they just continued to wear the one like you have - unless someone else knows different of course?!

Anyway, great to see the new badge mate and thanks for sharing it. By the way, if anyone out there has an original 1st Vol. Battn like Dean’s that they are looking to part with please drop me a PM.

Best regards

Martin

Am I right that this is a VB collar?

Spot on Alan, I have a pair and so passed on it when you offered it for sale very reasonably, regards Dean.

Thanks for confirming that I had the ID right. Now I just need to find another Leics enthusiast to sell mine to!

Dean,
is this the badge you are after? I think the SA scrolled badge must be officer quality as it has blades on it. Got these two along with another 4 or 5 Leicesters badges about 10 years ago on ebay! Looking at your badge and my badge they could be twins including the irregular shaped lozenge to the back!!
Cheers, Dave.

Wow!

Superb badges!

Andy

Spot on Dave - that is the exact badge and good to see it with lugs as per Martin's discussion on the use of blades.

Ok big breath - is there anything I could swap for it ! Have plenty to offer and would like to build on the family regiments - just PM please - also out of interest what were the other Leicestershire badges?

Thanks for sharing and they are a better pair than most collars !

Regards Dean.

Thanks Martin for correcting the dates which if I had been less hasty to post I should have remembered.

Thanks too for Andy for looking out for me with some research.

Regards Dean

Dean, as far as I can see, the Vol Bns did not get their own insignia until 1888 - or in some cases 1892. They certainly wouldn't have had 'cap badges' until the mid 90s.
incidentally there are some slidered VB examples though most will have retained lugs up to 1908.
J

Sorry Ticker, I've only read your post properly now !Yes, I remember my earlier post but I think that some VBs did have WM badges before 1901 too.

I hadn't noticed the Gaunt stamp on yours Dean - should it be London rather than B'ham at that date ?????

Hi Julian,

The Gaunt Birmingham mark is noted on the Forum by several posts by Martin. He notes the one from the Walter Lambert Collection sold by Wallace & Wallace with this mark.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...unt+birmingham

There are several other articles by Martin on the Gaunt history and they all note the existence of the Gaunt button business with London and Birmingham addresses pre-1900.

It would appear that 1st VB Leicesters badges bear the Gaunt B'Ham mark as a genuine mark and it poses much research potential as to what other VB badges they made and marked. Then there is the issue of blades versus lugs on such marked badges.

John M. posted a pic and reference which I will locate in the WO records of VB badges and it would be good if these could be consulted for clues. The Leicesters page which he photographed did not show a standard tiger cap badge but eth three lions pre 1905 version and that helps with the dating which I tripped on.

Assistance appreciated as the VB badges deserve more research and I think more information is out there than we generally acknowledge.

Regards Dean

Leicesters’ cap badges and J.R. Gaunt ‘Birmingham’ marks
 

Hello Julian

As Dean has pointed out, I’m personally quite happy with Gaunt ‘Birmingham’ marks on these early Leicesters cap badges. I am aware of three such marks on Leicestershire Volunteer/Territorial tiger cap badges, dating from before and after 1908: “J.R.Gaunt & Son Ltd B’ham”, “J.R. Gaunt B’ham”, and “J.R. Gaunt & Son Ltd Birm”. These all appear to be genuine marks, and are on badges that are so obviously the J.R. Gaunt & Son maker’s variation/type.

Why these Leicesters badges have such marks, as opposed to ones with a ‘London’ mark, I don’t know for sure. I suspect it may have something to do with the fact they would have been obtained by the volunteer battalion/territorial association themselves rather than through the War Office, and possibly therefore directly from the factory in Birmingham and not via Gaunt’s London outlet? Dean certainly raises a valid point, in that it would indeed be useful to know if any other volunteers/territorials had badges marked with a Gaunt ‘Birmingham’ mark??

As to volunteer battalions having white metal badges before 1901, I’m sure that they did. Again as Dean noted, John Mulcahy posted what he had found in WO 359/21 (Pattern book of 108 designs of badges for Volunteer Regiments) for the Leicesters here, which is of significance in this respect. It was just the white metal tiger cap badges that I was saying dated from 1902 onwards. Apparently before this date, the 1st Volunteer Battalion of the Leicestershire Regiment wore a badge with three lions on it, an example of which Dean put up here.

Regarding blades and loops (lugs), just to clarify where the Leicesters white metal tiger cap badges are concerned, the ones I have seen with blades are die-cast and so appear to be officers’ badges, whereas the ones with loops are die-struck and so seem to be ORs ones. I have so far only seen the “South Africa 1900.02” honour, which was awarded in 1905, on the die-cast bladed officers badges. What cap badges the officers were wearing from 1902-1905 I do not know? As I have not seen any die-struck looped ORs badge with the South Africa honour, I assume they continued to wear the badges with the “1st Vol. Battn” top scroll after 1905 - though, as I’ve already said, maybe someone else knows different??

Best regards

Martin