HAC beret badge clarity s'il vous plaît
 

I've put a HAC beret badge in the database. According to K&K these are HAC Infantry officers badges - but another source tells me they were worn (only?) in training by HAC 'gunners' and produced at 'regimental expense'.

anyone have the definitive answer?

The "Short Arms" is worn on the beret by all members of the HAC, with a black oval backing.

Marc

Copied from a wiki page, saves typing, hope this helps...
BERETS
The HAC wear a khaki beret with the HAC's cap badge ("short arms") in white metal on a black backing. Officers and warrant officers wear an embroidered cloth version of the same badge. The Corps of Drums and Regimental Band wear the HAC infantry grenade on a blue red blue backing, which is superficially identical to that of the Grenadier Guards. From July 2008, members of 4/73 (Sphinx) Special OP Battery, part of 5th Regiment Royal Artillery, the HACs paired regular regiment, adopted the khaki beret to mark their close working relationship.
On the forage cap, the HAC infantry grenade (white metal) is worn by junior ranks of all subunits of the regiment. Sergeants and Warrant Officers wear a different version of the grenade, which has the letters HAC in brass on the ball of the grenade. Officers wear an embroidered silver grenade on their forage caps in No 1 Dress (Infantry) and on the Service Dress forage cap but when in No 1 Dress (Gunner) they wear the HAC Artillery cap badge. The latter is similar to that of the Royal Artillery but with "HAC" and "Arma Pacis Fulcra" replacing "Ubique" and "Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt.
The Para Gunners of A (1st City of London) Battery HAC wear the short arms badge, and drummers the grenade badge, on the maroon beret on completion of P Company.
Cheers,
Chris

No help, but here's the officer's beret bullion

From at least as early as 1962, C Bty HAC wore the 'short arms' on a scarlet oval on the blue beret.

From a colour photograph in Action Front: A History of 'C' Battery HAC in War and Peace, by James Colquhoun.

Keith

Wonderful. I must be misunderstanding what K&K are intending or they are wrong. It did seem 'odd'. I'll just leave it simply 'Honourable Artillery Company Beret Badge' and add the embroidered version to that page when one comes along... Professor Charles Thomas (the late) has a load of nonsense too regarding that badge in the photos of his collection

My then flatemate was wearing the metal short arms as a beret badge as part of the HAC's HSF detachment in the early 90s.

"British Army Badges", R Hodges, 2005, shows the w/m short arms as "Soldier's beret badge 3.25 X 2.5 cm", a photo of a group of personnel wearing it shows it with a black backing which appears more circular than oval (although I thought the backing was oval).

The bullion badge cut to outline and worked on black is described as "Officer and Warrant Officer's wire-embroidered beret badge 6 X 5 cm", a photo shows officers and a WOII wearing the badge without backing.

The short arms badge was worn with a red backing on the blue beret, Officers bullion on red, OR's WM on red, with the introduction of the khaki beret, the badges were on black.
Hope this helps.

Chris

All very helpful everyone.

How does the HAC beret 'gun' badge in the style of the RA beret badge fit into the scheme of things? What decides if you wear the wings or gun badge - is it headdress type?

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/im...-gun-badge.jpg

Thanks for reminding me about Hodges, forgot to look in there - it's on the shelf right behind me! [senior moment]

The beret gun badge was worn by the Artillery side of the unit before the whole unit adopted the short arms with red backing, don't know the dates of this, sorry.
Last one issued in anodised.
Only Gun badge worn now is by the Officers as described in my post.

Chris

So K&K were correct (partly) in that it originated as a HAC (Infantry) badge.

The SNCOs WOs grenade badge was for a very short time anodised. Silver for the main part but gold anodised letters on the bomb.

That gun badge is horrendous, it just has to be a factory reject unless quality control were asleep. :)