British cap
 

Cosa ne pensate di questo berretto di artiglieria?

Hello Freddo, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts.

Using Google translate ....What do you think of this artillery cap?

Simon.

Nice WW2 period officers SD cap

What is the wording above the "Herbert Johnso" logo please?
"By Appointment To HM King....?" Or "The Late King...", The Queen", The Prince of Wales"?

Advert from a 1936 copy of the ‘Royal Artillery Journal’ .

Yep, there are other "By Appointments" too, to The King, The Late King, King Edward VIII, King George VI, The Queen etc.

I just liked that the ad was specifically aimed at the Royal Artillery . :D

.

I know........ it'd be good to print out for display with the cap.

Salve.

E' un buon esempio di un ufficiale di artiglieria della seconda guerra.

good evening and thanks for the replies, first of all I apologize for having written the first message in Italian, now I will use google translated I hope you can understand everything, I am sending you more photos of the cap and also of the manufacturer's logo that I was able to find on the web ... on a Facebook militaria group two people told me that the cap is post ww2 right from the manufacturer's logo ... I hope not so ... I trust in your help to understand better😊

Yes, the wording in the cap shown in post no. 5 shows that Queen Elizabeth II was on the throne when the cap was manufactured.
If manufactured during the reign of King George VI the wording would refer to him, not the Queen.
There was, after the death of King George VI and prior to the granting of a Royal Warrant of Appointment To Herbert Johnson by Queen Elizabeth II, a period when the wording would refer to The Late King or The Late King George VI, I don't know the dates of that wording, whether for months or years after the death of the King.
Ii would expect to see the Queen's Crown, the St Edward's Crown insignia on a cap with the wording that is in yours but perhaps the King's Crown insignia could be original to the cap.
The cap itself however was manufactured sometime after 1952.

The images of the logo shown in post no. 1 and post no. 5 appear to be of two different caps?
If so, is the wording in both exactly the same?

yes what you read well is taken from the web, unfortunately the writing in my hat does not read well, I only read well the name of the manufacturer

Hat from 1950's :

https://www.blightymilitaria.com/en-...3#.YL5UqlFKg1I

.

yes unfortunately there are no more doubts the cap is not ww2, I managed to take a better photo of the brand and it says queen ... I don't understand why the badge is for the king and the cap instead of the queen

King died February 1952 , old (King's) badges would be used until new ones (Queen's) could be manufactured.

.

thank you very much, I take advantage of this post to show you some badge I have

I don't know when the Queen's Crown badges would've been available, it may not have taken much time as they were private purchase.
Again, I don't know how long it took after King George VI died before the caps were stamped by appointment to the "Late King", or before Herbert Johnson received the Queen's Warrant.
Never say never, but I'd not rush to buy a post 1952 cap badged up with King's Crown insignia and bearing by appointment to the Queen and not the late King.
Whatever, it ain't WWII although no doubt some sellers would present it as such to boost the price.

The nuance to this is that the old badges would be worn until existing stocks ran out. Whilst new k/c badges may not have been manufactured until the sealed patterns were designed, approved and produced, this process would have taken some months and years. Even then the k/c badges in stores would have been issued before any q/c ones were produced.

This saw k/c badges still in use in 1958 when the amalgamations of cavalry and infantry brigade badges replace them with completely new designs. The 8th KRIH were still wearing k/c on amalgamation in 1958 for example.

I read that Warrants expired "no longer than 5 years after death" and the Gazette shows they were still using "Late King" until 1957.

Can't find Gazette details of when Queen granted warrant.

.

Good to date the "Late King" markings.
I'd want a good look at any signs of badge and buttons replacement on that cap.

useful info on the late usage of the late king warrant

It seems the same rule applied for warrants issued by the Queen Mother but have changed with the death of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

https://www.royalwarrant.org/sites/d...%20Holders.pdf

.

Again, interesting stuff.

I think I have the change over somewhere - BUT I do know that the Liverpool Irish only changed from KC to QC in 1964 !

I wonder if HM The Queen would have needed Herbert Johnson to make military headwear?
Hence perhaps no QEII Royal Warrant was issued?

Tim

Herbert Johnson caps are marked by appointment to the Queen so presumably the warrant has been granted.

The Royal Appointment was as "Hatter" , they didn't just make military items.


.

Mike,

I have it at 1936-38, and good to see it with an actual date from a period publication


also showing the modern QEII and prince of wales version