Cap Badge and Medal Identification
 

Hi, I'm new to this forum, this is my first post.

The photo is of my great grandfather who lived from 1875 to 1949.

I'm trying to identify his uniform and medal. My husband thinks the cap badge may be St. John's Ambulance?

Thank you!

Hello Karen, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts.

Karen,

Interesting photo which isnt easy to ID. Fits various criteria such as military, police etc.

Best guess he is a Territorial soldier in the 6th Battalion the East Surrey Regiment. They had that distinctive cap badge as dressed in a Rifles pattern green uniform with black bugle horn buttons.

The medal looks like the Volunteer Long Service and Good Conduct Medal but if he was born in 1875 he wouldnt have had enough service to be awarded it before 1908 when it was abolished.

regards

A location for him when the picture was taken would help, I thought it looks like Buckinghamshire battalion with the Swan in the centre.

Looks a little on the large side to me, I would go with Simon on this one.
Tony.

Thank you for the responses so far.
I'm afraid I don't know when the photo was taken or where, but he lived in Kingston on Thames. Which would make sense with the East Surrey Regiment suggestion.
He was a Police Constable in the City Police at the end of the 19th Century.
I know he was a Sargent in the Army Educational Corps in 1929 and these other 2 photos must be from that time, but the cap badge is different to the one in my original photo.

I am guessing that the medal is the Metropolitan Police 1897 Golden Jubilee Medal

PL

Hello Karen,
The first picture is indeed the cap badge of the Army Educational Corp, they were formed in 1920 and the title changed to include Royal along with a badge change in 1946, I’m guessing the second picture shows him and his “ pupils”:)

Gerard

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=92464

This is the East Surrey 6th Bn badge. The size is larger than the Bucks TF or Kings Royal Rifle Corps badges of a similar design.

Hello,

I think I got it right with the Regiment in my first post, backed up by the Kingston location and I think PL got it right with the medal, now knowing his Police background.

regards

Thank you PL. Yes, I've had a look online at images of the Police Jubilee Medals and I believe this must be a Police Diamond Jubilee Medal awarded for duty at the principal Diamond Jubilee events in 1897, as I know he was in the City Police in 1897.

I believe it is the same as the Golden Jubilee Medal awarded in 1887, but if you were on duty at both events you received a bar with 1897 on it to add to your original medal. My great grandfather would have been too young for the 1887 jubilee, hence the lack of the extra bar.

Thank you Simon, yes I think you were spot on with the cap badge. I have found a photo of the 6th Battalion East Surrey Regiment badge online (attached) and it does look very similar.
His uniform looks very dark, but you said this could be because he was perhaps in the rifles, whose uniform is dark green.

Yes, you are correct Karen. Before 1908 the 6th Battalion East Surrey Regiment (Territorial Force), were, since 1887, the 3rd Volunteer Battalion (VB) East Surrey Regiment. Before 1887 it had been a part of a large administrative regiment of Surrey Rifle Volunteer Corps (part-time citizen soldiers at local drill-halls), of which it had been numbered the 5th Corps, and since 1882 affiliated with the regular East Surrey Regiment, albeit without any change of title.

The Surrey units, like most of the Rifle Volunteers across Britain had been a large regiment and from 1887 some of its numbered corps went to the Queen’s West Surrey’s and some the East Surrey’s to consolidate as VBs. Each of the corps had previously had their own uniforms, some scarlet, some grey and some rifle green, and fearing the oblivion of their identity, some of them fought to retain their old uniform style and insignia regardless of becoming part of a scarlet clad, regular regiment.

The 6th East Surrey (TF) had been one of those determined to retain their identity and the photo of your forebear in rifle green reflects that. Even when wearing khaki ‘drab’ service dress during WW1 the battalion retained the black rifles buttons, shoulder titles and cap badges that reflected its heritage. In the 1920s the attitude changed and a new commanding officer formally requested to adopt the same insignia as the regular, parent regiment.

J D Cullimore
 

Karen,
Plenty on him in Ancestry, including family photographs, he was described as a Police Constable on his marriage certificate in 1896,presumably City of London as he does not appear on the Medal Roll for the Met.