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Mazeas Corrections
Unfortunately, Mazeas 1920-50 has some errors. How about posting the errors that you have found or of which you are aware?
To start:
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The lack of collars shown for the Calgary Regiment. M. 154 on page 106. might be a small omission, however it lets one believe there were no collars for the Regiment.
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I confess I don't have a copy, but if someone will be so kind as to send me a scan of the pages for The RCR I'll give it a look over?
If possible, I'd like a cover scan as well, and I'll add it here. |
N.N.S. Highlanders "N.N.S. HIGH'RS" variant overlooked (title like the illustrated enamel officers M136a, but struck w.m.). And speaking of which, was there ever a "N.N.S. HIGH'RS (M.G.)" officers badge or do they all read "N.N.S. HIGH'RS"?
Incorrect date for 8th Princess Louise Hussars overseas pattern (C60), or he didn't know about/omitted the overseas pattern. I believe the letter/word spacing on the actual WW2 type is tighter than the badge Mazeas illustrates, so I lean toward the latter. I'd be guessing at the correct issue date, so hopefully someone like Jo can fill that in. Officers general list badge shown (S29) is the enameled type, but Mazeas includes neither the "Canada" leaf O.R. general list badge nor the all metal officers type as shown in Tripp. If someone can clarify the difference between Queen's Rangers (M26) cap badges illustrated, I'd be appreciative. He has 2 dates, 1926 and 1929, but I can see no difference in the cap badges; are the differences just confined to the collars and shoulders? In a recent forum discussion about the Irish Fusiliers of Canada (Vancouver Regiment) bomb (M24) vs, crowned bomb (M24a) badges, the dates seem out of whack to me. Didn't boots and saddles say that 1937 was when they received authorization for the crown? If so, M24a s/b 1937, but what date goes with M24? Similarly, per recent mad4thcef's postings about the Ft. Garry Horse, shouldn't C50 be dated 1915 or 1916, and C50a be 1922? The RCR badge (M1) is the Guelphic rather than Imperial crown from 1926. Needs another pic. Duplication of M166a -- once for West Toronto Regiment then again for Toronto Scottish officers. Someone needs a new number. What's up with M53/M53a: two numbers for the same illustration? |
David,
I'll give a couple of poor opinions on your questions. Agreed the w/m N.N.S. HIGH'RS seems missing. I believe this was chronologically the first badge. Enamelled officers badges exist in the MG & NNS HIGH'RS pattern. To my knowledge there is no NNS HIGHLANDERS badge in silver & enamel. The 1st Bn 8th PLH badge (the overseas pattern) is reported to have appeared in 1942. It may well be that it was not authorized by a General Order until 1950 - I don't know. If there is a difference between wartime & post war badges, it's more likely a reflection of British vs. Canadian manufacture - i.e. variants of the same badge rather than a pattern change. The Queens Rangers cap badges are essentially all the same. I think you're right - Mazeas is showing the newer collars reflecting the MG designation received in 1936. The Irish fusiliers 'bomb badge' was authorized in 1937. The Regiment wanted it to include the coronet to reflect their affiliation with the Royal Irish Fusiliers. Apparently the government agreed that they could wear the coronet, but refused to fund any changes. In other words, they had tacit permission to wear a badge which was not formalized by a General Order. Again, I don't know when the GO came through - probably a couple of decades later. The early crowned bomb badges are commony found with the coronet attached with a brass tab soldered to the reverse - a modification likely by a Vancouver jeweller, paid for out of Regimental funds. M53 / M53a - is he trying to tell us that the badge exists in different colours, black & brass? |
I see what you mean about M53/M53a. Everywhere else Maz. doesn't differentiate if there is more than one material (eg. 48th Highlanders, Halifax Rifles), just design variations, but in this case, looking back at the entry, it looks like the blackened badge was for the Wellington Rifles, then the same badge but in brass for when they became the Wellington Regiment.
Which, I suppose, raises the point as to whether identical badges in different materials should be noted as variants and sub-numbered. Then what about makers? Distinctive materials differences (i.e. late war vs. early war or late 30s production? Lugs? When I collected stamps, it seemed each known variation had a distinct Scott's or some other catalgue number, not just the overall pattern. My vote would be to do the same thing for badges if the aim is to create a comprehensive cataloging system. Officers' badges is another can of worms; Maz. includes a few, maybe just 5 or 10 at most. The NNS Highlanders is one. Others I remember offhand are the Toronto Scottish, Garrison Regiment, Seaforths and Le Regiment de Quebec. My long-on-opinion-short-on-fact thought is that these are there because they are 'distinctly' different -- pieces in the case of the Seaforths, sizes in the case of the Toronto Scottish & Reg. de Quebec, materials in the case of the Garrison, then a combination of things in the case of the NNS Highlanders. But based on that criterion, why wouldn't he include the Assiniboia Regiment officers (cloisonné), or even list the materials variants for the plethora of bi-metal officers badges like the BCDs, Lincoln & Welland, South Sasks, etc., etc.? All this muttering and 'what-abouting' makes me sound like I should move back to the Canuck forum, and is not really the tone I want to convey. I really think Mazeas is an exceptional resource, if only because he took the time and effort to do it and no one else followed suite near as well. However, is this threads original question really are we (i.e. the Canadian forum members) collectively looking to come up with the best, most comprehensive Canadian badge reference and database ever? Could make a great stocking stuffer :D |
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there's one in the glossary you can take: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/arm...ary/mazeas.jpg |
Perth Regiment M51
Mazeas shows left and right facing collars. Collars both face left for this pattern.
Dwayne |
Guys thanks for all the input so far.
Mazeas is an excellent reference, and the basic bible for the king's crown era in Canadian badges. However, as we were working through the badge registry, some errors became apparent. Editing the catalogue makes sure that the reference is as accurate as possible. Some good questions have been asked about cataloging the varieties of badges. David has asked an important question about the amount of detail for a catalogue. The officers' badges are the most glaring example of omissions. Why Daniel Mazeas only included the handful he did was not explained. Most regiments did have officer's pattern badges. These should be listed. Should significant differences in badge runs be listed? There was some discussion about the Irish Regiment varieties in the thread about DavidG's badge finds. The question about runs is differentiation and documentation. What exactly would constitute a difference? This would be somewhat arbitrary at some point. It is certainly worth pursuing. The Canadian Badge Index is a major step towards this. Could it, and should it at some point be converted to a published reference? Digital? Some information on a specific question. The Wellington Rifles were not the only unit to be granted "infantry of the line" status by becoming a regiment. The Algonquin Rifles were also granted the designation of "Regiment" in 1929. The Algonquin Rifles badges, blackened, were to have the blacking removed to reflect the new designation. There are M144 badges around that have had the blacking removed. If Mazeas included the two patterns of badges to represent the two different designations for the Wellington Regiment, the same should be done for the Algonquin Regiment. Another numbering error. M131 represents both the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders and the Military School of Piping. The A & SH Military School of Piping should be numbered M131a. David, my old eyes may be tricking me, but I can't find an S29. The officer's general list badge in my copy of Mazeas is numbered S28. There is no S29 that I can find. Should that become the or's general list badge? |
David -
I hear the points you're making & understand what you're saying. Some time back, Chris Brooker embarked on a project of authouring badge books with exactly the level of detail you describe. These catalogued every known issue & variant - material, fasteners, makers, new die / old die, officers / OR's, etc, etc, etc. He also included a numbering scheme, which would allow for the sequential addition of any new variants which came to light post publication. The series was never completed, but the first few volumes would have to be adjudged an outstanding piece of work. I don't know what the sales figures were for these books, but it doesn't seem like they were embraced by the collecting community. They seldom come up in conversations, auction houses don't use the definitive numbering scheme, etc. The books are extremely complex; maybe too complex for the majority of hobbyists who don't collect that way. One thing should be learned from the Brooker initiative - any reference work that gets into minute & subtle detail needs world class illustrations. This was the weak point in Chris' books. On occassion, I have had a badge in one hand & the book in the other, & have been unable to precicely determine which of the dozens of variants it is. |
S29
Bill, you mean that little black blobby thing wasn't a '9'?
You're right of course, s/b "S28" for General List. There is an S29, which is the RCEME 'unicorn' badge. This is a numbering oddity that pops up in a couple of places, as this badge follows the RCEME 'shield' badge (S15). Same for 14th Cdn. Light Horse (C39), followed by 14th Cdn. Hussars (C61). There is some odd mixing of chronological numbering (like the above) vs. badge type numbering. As well, for numbering things like the buckled annulus badges, in some places (e.g. Cape Breton High'rs, M137) the earlier buckled type has the "a" number while in others (e.g. Sault Ste. Marie, M78), it is the other way round. Added to this, for most regiments badges are sequentially grouped and numbered, but for others, most notably 1949 pattern changes for Kings Own Calgary, Cape Breton High'rs, etc., they are in wholly different places in the book. This makes sense if most of the research was done before 1949, then the army came along with a pile of revised badges that just got stuck in, but the revised edition was printed in 1985, so go figure. More "LOOOSOF" from me -- after the first edition (blue cover) was produced, Mazeas just fit the variants and additional badges into the numbering he already had set up, rather than renumbering the badges for the revised edition. As for would the world's greatest ever Canadian badge reference sell? Hmmm, 7 copies at least ;). I agree that there is so much minutia given that we are dealing with manufactured items where day-to-day variables influence so much, there is only so much 'picayuneness' even I could tolerate. There must have been a lot of "Hey, Chuck, I'm running out of 025 brass sheet and I've got another 237 to do yet, is 017 okay?" going on. But where there is a definite, reliable, definable difference (w.m., brass, bronze and copper for Halifax Rifles, say, or the comments about blackened badges vs. other versions of same as a result of unit redesignation) it's not a stretch to include these, or at least document the metals/finishes used like Charlton did with their "composition" line. Same goes for manufacturers. Where we could go with officers badges is beyond me -- I can't afford very many :D |
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I also managed to dig out of my files an old photocopy of the badge drawing to do my site update. Mazeas depicts only one badge of The RCR, rather than the three major variants, that existed during his date range of 1920 to 1950. The hand-drawn version of the Guelphic crown badge is applicable for 1920-1927, but for the period after that, he should also present the early Imperial crown and the St Edward's crown patterns. |
Reference the Irish Fusiliers
M21 is shown with the eagle facing the wrong direction. I see that the debate about the coronet has appeared on this thread. The following link will give the info that I previously posted. http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...4&postcount=12 Phil |
Another error I noted, and have already made reference to in another topic, is the Collar badges of the PEILH. C.52 page 44. The reference shows a common collar, not a right and left pattern.
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Phil, Should the cap and collars eagle head be reversed, or did the collars come in matched pairs?
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I have the collars in a matched pair.
Phil |
Mazeas Enhanced Reference
The "Cross" numbering allows for a reasonable reference. It would be quite an undertaking for forum members to come up with a matching reference for Mazeas- Might be a challenge but fun!!!
My "kick at the cat"" Hat Badge S.4 "Canadian Signal Corps" S.4.001 OR_Brass_Non-Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.002 OR_Brass_Non-Voided Crown_Slide_Unknown S.4.003 OR_Brass_Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.004 OR_Brass_Voided Crown_Slide_Unknown Officers/WO1 S.4.010 OSD_Non-Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.011 OSD_Non-Voided Crown_Slide_Unknown S.4.012 Gilt/Enamel_Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.013 Gilt/Enamel_Voided Crown_Slide_Unknown Collars S.4.020 OR_Brass_Non-Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.021 OR_Brass_Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.022 OR_Brass_Voided Crown_Lugs_Sculley Officers/WO1 S.4.030 OSD_Non-Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.031 OSD_Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.032 Gilt/Enamel_Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.033 Gilt/Enamel_Non-Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown Shoulder Title S.4.040 Brass_Lugs_Unknown S.4.041 Brass_Lugs_Sculley Busby S.4.050 Brass_Unknown This still needs work but it is an example of what might be required Larry |
Larry Interesting approach. Would it be simpler to use a secondary alpha character for the various badges? For example, Sh 4 where the S is the Mazeas catalogue for corps / services, the "h" would indicate cap or headdress badge, and then the number. The collars could be "c" and the metal shoulder titles "t". It could even allow for "e" embroidered and "p" printed cloth shoulder titles. Officer's cap badges and WO's similarly, could be "o" and "wo". So your S.4.001 would be Sh4.1 brass, unvoided crown,lugs unknown.
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An example
No. Insignia Rank Comments
S.4 "Canadian Signal Corps" S.4.001 Hat Badge OR Brass_Non-Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.002 Brass_Non-Voided Crown_Slide_Unknown S.4.003 Brass_Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.004 Brass_Voided Crown_Slide_Unknown Officers/WO1 S.4.010 OSD_Non-Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.011 OSD_Non-Voided Crown_Slide_Unknown S.4.012 Gilt/Enamel_Voided_Lugs_Unknown S.4.013 Gilt/Enamel_Voided_Slide_Unknown Collars S.4.020 OR Brass_Non-Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.021 OR_Brass_Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.022 OR_Brass_Voided Crown_Lugs_Sculley Officers/WO1 S.4.030 OSD_Non-Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.031 OSD_Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.032 Gilt/Enamel_Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown S.4.033 Gilt/Enamel_Non-Voided Crown_Lugs_Unknown Shoulder Title S.4.040 Brass_Lugs_Unknown S.4.041 Brass_Lugs_Sculley Busby S.4.050 Brass_Unknown |
Larry's system
S.4 "Canadian Signal Corps"
Ref No. Insignia Rank Comments S.4.001 Cap OR Brass; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.002 Brass; Solid; Slide; Unknown S.4.003 Brass; Voided; Lugs; Unknown S.4.004 Brass; Voided ; Slide; Unknown S.4.010 Officers/WO1 OSD; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.011 OSD; Solid; Slide; Unknown S.4.012 OSD; Solid; Slide; W.M. Scully S.4.015 Gilt/Enamel; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.016 Gilt/Enamel; Solid; Slide; Unknown S.4.017 Gilt/Enamel; Solid; Slide; W.M. Scully S.4.020 Collars OR Brass; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.021 Brass; Void; Lugs; Unknown S.4.022 Brass; Voided; Lugs; Scully S.4.025 Officers/WO1 OSD; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.026 OSD; Voided; Lugs; Unknown S.4.027 Gilt/Enamel; Voided; Lugs; Unknown S.4.028 Gilt/Enamel; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.030 Shoulder Title OR “Canadian Signal Corps” Brass; Unknown S.4.031 “C.S.C.”; Brass; Scully S.4.032 “C.S.C.”; Brass; P.W. Ellis S.4.045 Busby Brass; Unknown S.4.055 Button Brass; Gaunt s.4.056 Silver; Smith&Wright Main Ref: Based upon Mazeas system This could be the “Format” for all units: xx. 001 thru 009 OR Cap Badge. xx. 010 thru 019 Officer Cap Badge xx. 020 thru 025 OR Collar xx. 025 thru 030 Officer Collar xx. 031 thru 035 OR Shoulder Title xx. 035 thru 040 Officer Shoulder Title xx. 041 thru 045 Busby xx. 045 thru 050 Piper xx. 051 thru 055 Button xx. 060 Sweetheart xx. 075 Cloth Question : 1. How many Corps/Regts had OSD and Gilt/Enamel badges for Officers/WO1? 2. Is the fact that the “Crown” is solid or Void a variant? |
Alpha-numeric system
Here is an alpha numeric system.
S.4 "Canadian Signal Corps" h=headdress badge, c=collar badge, t=title, e=embroidered shoulder title, p=printed shoulder title Ref No. Insignia Rank Comments S.4.001 or S4h.1 Cap OR Brass; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.002 or S4h.2 Brass; Solid; Slide; Unknown S.4.003 or S4h.3 Brass; Voided; Lugs; Unknown S.4.004 or S4h.4 Brass; Voided ; Slide; Unknown S.4.010 or S4ho.1 Officers/WO1 OSD; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.011 or S4ho.2 OSD; Solid; Slide; Unknown S.4.012 or S4ho.3 OSD; Solid; Slide; W.M. Scully S.4.015 or S4ho.4 Gilt/Enamel; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.016 or S4ho.5 Gilt/Enamel; Solid; Slide; Unknown S.4.017 or S4ho.6 Gilt/Enamel; Solid; Slide; W.M. Scully S.4.020 or S4c.1 Collars OR Brass; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.021 or S4c.2 Brass; Void; Lugs; Unknown S.4.022 or S4c.3 Brass; Voided; Lugs; Scully S.4.025 or S4co.1 Officers/WO1 OSD; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.026 or S4co.2 OSD; Voided; Lugs; Unknown S.4.027 or S4co.3 Gilt/Enamel; Voided; Lugs; Unknown S.4.028 or S4co.4 Gilt/Enamel; Solid; Lugs; Unknown S.4.030 or S4t.1 Shoulder Title OR “Canadian Signal Corps” Brass; Unknown S.4.031 or S4t.2 “C.S.C.”; Brass; Scully S.4.032 or S4t.3 “C.S.C.”; Brass; P.W. Ellis Main Reference is Based upon the Mazeas system. The alpha numeric approach leaves the numbering open ended. |
The alpha numeric system would work better for you. The GRVI Service Corps has more distinct officers patterns than the ten designators provided in the straight numeric proposal.
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my kick at the errors can
[LIST][*]S22 - KC Provost collars do not face (generally speaking)
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Hello Doug,
1. I have never seen a "matched" pair of kc Canadian Provost Corps collars. Do you have a pair? 2. Do you have an image of the PLDG's maple leaf collars? 3. Doug, what is your reference for the swap on these? 4. Thanks for pointing that one out. 5. Question, is there a ALI without the Nulli Secundus motto? Or, Mazeas made an error on these illustrations. (That would have most of us chasing an imaginary badge...) |
Actually, C44a is the Pre-1914 Victoria Independent Squadron and should not be in the 1920-1950 book.
The same goes for C45 which is the badge that was worn by the 1st and 2nd Regiments BC Horse prior to the formation of the 30th BC Horse and 31st BC Horse. Phil |
Dwayne is right about the Perth collars, they do face the same way because they are using the offical Perth County crest & couldn't change it.
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Phil, Mazeas shows the C45 badge in both the Pre-1914 book and the 20-50 book. It should only be in the Pre-14 book? The GO's refs in the pre-1914 book must be in error, as he has the C45 badge approved after the 30th was approved and before the 31st was approved?
Ray, Thanks for the explanation on why the collars must stay the same and not reverse for the opposite sides. |
Reference The British Columbia Horse
Here is the General Order for MC49 GO 37 /April 1910 British Columbia Horse 5. Badges as described hereunder, are authorized Cap badge. A wreath of fir boughs in the form of an 8 pointed star surmounted by the Imperial crown, the points of the star being formed by the protrusion of a cactus stem; across the bottom, a scroll in scribed “BRITISH COLUMBIA HORSE”. In the centre a circle bearing the motto “QUANSEM ILEP” enclosing a cougar couchant on a rock foreground, with a background of fir trees. Height 1 ½ inches. Metal-Gilt or gilding metal, central figure of cougar on rock foreground to be in silver or white metal. Collar badge. Same as cap badge. Height 1 ¼ inches. Metal-As for cap badge. Helmet plate. Same design as for cap badge. Height 4 ¼ inches. Metal-As for cap badge. (H.Q. 6-10-4) The following is from RH Roy's Sinews of Steel Page 464 The earliest badge worn by the unit had been designed originally for the Kamloops squadron by Mr. E.H. Drummond.1 It was in the shape of an eight-pointed star composed of the tops of fir boughs, the tips of which were cactus flower buds. The topmost points were surmounted by an Imperial crown. An annulus centre had the motto Quanasum Elip, meaning “Always First” in the Chinook tongue. The annulus enclosed a couchant cougar dexter with an open background broken by fir trees. A scroll supported by the four lower points read “British Columbia Horse”.2 When the 30th B.C. Horse was authorized in 1911, it adopted this badge adding one or two changes. The open centre of the annulus vanished and a cougar couchant, crouching on a rocky ledge, overlapped the annulus. The spelling of the motto changed to “Quansum Ilep”. A smaller version of the cap badge served as collar badges, and metal shoulder badges reading”30 B C HORSE” were adopted also. 1.Personal correspondence , Mr. H.T. Wilson to author, 17 April, 1961 2 Ibid.; P.A.B.C., Fyle O,B,B64, Vol. 1, W.R. Bone, “Notes on Badges of Western Canadian Military and Semi-Military Units, 1949”. See also General Order No. 37, 1 April 1910. Finally, here is the entry from WR Bone's book. I believe that he relied on anecdotal evidence, and as he published in 1949, he was able to speak to people who had worn the badges. Genesis of The British Columbia Dragoons is found in the British Columbia Horse formed in the Okanagan Valley in the post-Boer War period when the era of mounted fighting man was at its zenith. The first issue of cap and collars (officers’, silver and men’s, brass) was in the form of an eight-pointed star composed of the tops of fir trees. The topmost points supported a crown. An annulus centre inscribed “Quanasum Elip”* enclosed a couchant cougar dexter in silver with an open background broken by fir trees. A scroll supported by the four lower points read “British Columbia Horse”. With the growth of the unit, the 30th and 31st (see B.C. Hussars) British Columbia Horse came into being and the 30th continued to use a badge on a similar line to the original. It varied, however, in that the open centre vanished and a cougar sinister, crouching on a rocky ledge, overlapped the annulus. On this badge the motto read “Quansem Ilep”. * Despite the variation in spelling, both this motto and the one on the second issue mean “Always First”. Taken from the phonetic Chinook tongue, the actual spelling appears to rest with the individual. Now, here are my observations: Ref Mazeas Canadian Militia Badges Pre 1914 MC.49 Mazeas attributes this badge to the 30th BC Horse. In some ways, it follows the description in the General Orders, however, the cap badge is 2 inches tall. I have photographic evidence of the MC.49 collar badge being worn as a cap badge, as well as the MC.50 cap badge being worn by the 31st BC Horse. Ref: A Short History of the 31st British Columbia Horse By Flick. There are some discrepencies. MC.50 does not have the cactus buds, whereas MC49 does. The sizes in the General Order for 1910 correspond to the sizes of MC.50 The spelling of the motto in the General Order corresponds to MC.49, rather than MC.50. I believe MC.50 to be The British Columbia Horse The cap badge is 1 1/2 inches high The collar badge is 1 1/4 inches high. I think that both MC.49 and MC.50 were worn by The British Columbia Horse. What is important, is that these badges were authorized in 1910, whereas the 1st and 2nd Regiments, British Columbia Horse did not become the 30th BC Horse and 31st BC Horse respectively until 1912 - G.O. 74/1912. Phil |
So - who's going to write the 1920-1950 badge book? I know a publisher who would be interested.
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13th Scottish
So does C.24 belong in the 1920-1950 book? The quoted GO is from 1906 and it is already in the pre-1914 book. My thoughts are - The unit is active in 1920, the badge is worn and has not been changed - so it is a badge of the 1920 period. Having the GO quoted gives the info that there was not a change to the design over the years. My problem is that I have "just" one of the badge, so I register it under pre-1920 and display it in that collection. What I really need is another example of the badge with a markers mark and a date on it after 1920.
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Larry, If I am reading Stewart's Concise Lineages of the Canadian Army 1855 - Date correctly, the 13th Scottish Light Dragoons were not disbanded until 1936. That would make the badge also part of the 20-36 period.
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Considering that some pre-1914 badges and CEF badges were worn after 1920 - 16th CEF worn by The Canadian Scottish, 7th CEF worn by The BC Regiment - A 1920-50 Book is going to be a pretty tall order. Photographic evidence is going to be key as General Orders do not cover all badges that were worn.
Also, is this to include cloth badges? I can see this getting very big, and requiring input from various "experts". It may be that it will require an editor rather than one author as there are many people who have expertise in different aspects and units. Food for thought. Phil |
13th Scottish
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Metal cap, collar and shoulder badges, to include those that were introduced in the 1920 - 1950 era (as the assumption is that those that were introduced pre-1920 have been covered elsewhere and can be referenced). Definitely photographic, front and backs. The challenge is quality photography although digitals make it easier these days. An editor would be required but a specialist (or two) could be responsible for individual chapters. http://www.canadiansoldiers.com has useful lists of extant units at various ties and these could be used to define the scope of badges covered. Clive |
3 Attachment(s)
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2. See below. Also a scan of the "correct" Beaver collars. 3. I guess you've got me Bill - I don't have a reference. I'm too lazy to be a good researcher, & this may be one of those stubborn opinions which gets trotted out as fact. I know the opinion is shared by some well respected prairie guys, but I can offer no empirical proof. 4. On a side note, at least one officers badge exists for the BCH (or VIS if you will) Bronze overlays on brass - very classy. 5. I'll go out on a limb here & say there is no such thing as an ALI badge without the Nulli Secundus motto. Obviously, a statement that something doesn't exist can never be wholly proven - it can only be dis-proven. If there is a motto-less badge, someone on the forum will produce evidence on the next posting. |
Being loaned a copy of the GO's 1937-38 (thanks Service Pub), I found an interesting ammendment for the Pictou Higlanders. GO 83/1938 amends GO 57/1923 from "gilt" to "In silver". The appropriate badge for the Pictou's would then be gilt badge until sometime after 1938, and then the white metal one. So a brass Pictou is an early issue badge.
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In Mazeas, the Calgary Regiment, M 154 does not have collars illustrated, but M 170, King's Own Calgary Regiment does. Were there no collars for the M 154 pattern?
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?? Yes, they did...
Hi Bill, I am at work and don't have Mazeus in front of me, but the matching collars to M.154 should be a pair of Alberta provincial coat of arms with a numeral 50 on them (perpetuating the 50th CEF Bn IIRC)??
Link to a photo of the pair. Link to a wartime photo of a Capt. Rogers in SD. (Red Deer Archives) |
Large beaver variant, Canadian Forestry Corps, not shown.
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