5th (Cyclist) Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment
 

I have started this separate thread as it lapses over a few other threads with a linked theme (hyperlinks included below).

I was very interested in https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...hlight=cyclist particularly Deejayuu’s comment about the brass rose on the 5th (Cyclist) Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment and the comments that the badge may have had a separate brass rose applied in lieu of the standard white metal rose.

I was wondering if there is a definitive answer to the question of what badge did East Yorks Cyclists wear? Was it:

• Regular Battalions’ cap badge that was blackened
• A brass cap badge struck for the Battalion, blackened
• An altered Regular badge with brass replacement rose, blackened.
• Either of the above and then a blackened all gilding metal “economy” badge from 1916?

Notwithstanding the errors in many of the early books on cap badges (see thread re ‘Mistakes/Errors in Gaylor's (and other early published cap badge books)’ https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...omy%26quot%3B:


K & K Vol 1 p448 (1861) states the badge is blackened brass (and at p182 (609) states the ORs badge of the Regular Battalions to be the rose in white metal, the remainder in gilding metal).

Cox also states this in Military Badges of the British Empire p178.

Gaylor (3rd ed.) p113 states blackened Regular Battalions badge

There are a couple of articles too:

J.B. Peters article Cyclists MHS Issue 66, Vol. XVII, November 1966, p. 36 states that “This Battalion wore badge of the East Yorkshire Regiment but blackened.

NB same author is referred to in the ‘Mistakes’ thread - posts 2 & 16 - that “some of the errors in "Military Badge Collecting" … may have originated in an article "Territorial Force and Territorial Army Headdress Badges 1908-1939 " by J.B.Peters in the November 1968 MHS Bulletin)

E.J. Martin’s article The Cyclist Battalions and Their Badges, 1888-1921
Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research
Vol. 22, No. 91 (Autumn, 1944), p. 279 states “[they] wore cap badges of their parent regiments…and black badges”

Chris

Good question on construction but one I suspect that cannot be categorically answered with 100% certainty for a variety of reasons.

Whilst requiring very low production numbers nevertheless spanning the period 1908-20 there’s potential for several orders and numerous manufacturers to have been involved and therein variations, especially during WW1.

So the answer to your question could be all of the above with respect to badges.

Drawing inference from the 7th (Cyclist) Bn, The Welsh Regiment I’m of the conviction that the distinctive Lambourne badges often found blackened are Cyclists badges. My view was reinforced by a photo shown on the forum earlier this year which showed a badge with very similar asymmetrical plumes. Julian’s research on wartime badge orders is also very helpful on this topic and an invaluable primary source.

I too like Deejayus badge with the brass overlay, I was a little surprised to hear it did not have a braze hole but don’t think this detracts from it.

Something else to bear in mind recalling the late Professor Charles Thomas collection is him gap filling several rare bronzed/blackened version badges by DIY paint jobs - thankfully he used glossy modern acrylics so it was obvious. However, the E Yorks Cyclists is definitely one to be careful of as no doubt others, have given a normal badge the same treatment perhaps with older more period paint.

Could not the all white metal single piece Volunteer's badge simply have been painted black for wear by the 5th Bn?

Leigh,

Another one thrown into the hat.

Chris

The blacking of WM cap badges was not a particularly common practice at all. Off the top of my head I can only think of the 9th and 16th Bns London Regiment found in this finish.

Blackenrd GM (or Brass) is far more common, so much so it has its own abbreviation BB whereas BWM is seldom seen or used.

My gut says such an oddity of a Blackened WM cap badge might have attracted such comment in some/any of the literature?

Buckinghamshire Battalion too.

Agreed, it just seems that if a Volunteer unit's wearing a badge in white metal and then as TF adopts the same badge but blackened it would be simple and economical to paint the white metal badges black.

Very logical thinking and not saying it’s not impossible. But like I said I just feel if a BWM badge were the case it would likely have been mentioned as such and found its way into the literature since it would be A. pretty obvious and B. relatively unusual.

That there is no mention of it being a BWM badge, ever, that I’ve seen makes me think it’s not.

Re using up old stock I would suggest that depends entirely on what badge the antecedent 2nd V.B. East Yorkshire Regiment were wearing pre-1908. They also had a Cyclist Coy so what they wore is another consideration. Did they actually wear a WM ‘normal’ East Yorks badge or something different like a V.B. scrolled cap badge, glengarry or even collar etc. perhaps if wearing the FSC?

I’m no V.B. or East Yorks collector so maybe someone else can answer.

Apples and oranges admittedly, but I do know the 2nd V.B. East Lancashire Cyclist Coy wore a bespoke glengarry badge similar to the Middlesex Cyclists Vols.

To your point Luke - the 6th Battalion DLI wore blackened cap badges and these were GM badges that were either blackened by the manufacturer of by the battalion. They were not standard WM badges that were blackened. The all GM badges are often passed off as economy issue which is pure fantasy.

I think this adds to the picture that E Yorks cyclist badges were blackened badges that may well have been different than the regular pattern badge as the feedstock, cheers Dean

I'm probably misinterpreting what you're saying, you appear to be saying that there was no WWI Economy version of the East Yorks Regt cap badge? (Which there was).

No, he means the DLI :) Who also had blackened wm badges.

Meh, yes - more coffee required.
I have what may be a blackened DLI "cleaned" down to the yellow metal - or a poor quality striking fake /repro.

I think what Dean is saying is that instead of 6th Bn DLI using and blacking a standard WM DLI badge, of which there would’ve been lots, they used BB.

And that DLI’s found in GM / brass and sold as WW1 era 1916 all GM issues are not.

The inference I believe is that the 6th went against the grain of the standard metal badge.

I’m no metallurgist but I don’t wonder if perhaps there is something about the property of blacking GS compared to GM. A lot of volunteers HPs, which are found in BWM, do often get a faded look even on areas which wouldn’t attract much wear such as the recesses of cross arms.

Yes, confusion down to me somehow reading DLI as East Yorks.

I mistakenly thought that 1 VB East Yorks formed 4 Bn East Yorks and that 2 VB E Yorks formed 5 Bn E Yorks but that isn't the case.
2 VB East Yorks amalgamated with 2 VB Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howards) to form
5th Bn The Yorkshire Regiment, the 5th Bn East Yorks was a new formation although it did include a large proportion of ex - 2 VB East York personnel.