Gaunt AA "Black" Motto?
 

Hi All

This Motto sold recently for a very high price. I have seen these before in normal Wm. AA and always un-marked and always with a long slider.

Now, the actual "blackened" Motto used by the 17th/21st Lancers during the 1980s (NI) was a white metal (inc. slider) base Motto that was then blackened with what looks like a powder coat. There was a similar "Gun-metal" type made in the same way. The Chrome Mottoes were also made from these Wm. base Mottoes.

So ...... is there any official record of a Black "AA" Motto by Gaunt - or, at the very least, makers marked?

The previous owner repainted a number of his badges including at least one EI badge that was turned into a BB TF Queens badge by painting the front.

I suspect that someone has paid vastly over the odds for this one.

Alan

Not the case for this type..... I have donated image examples of both others. As you can see.... not the usual Gaunt sliders?

UPDATE: They are definitely Gaunt made..... there is a Makers marked version with the shorter slider.

I am 99% certain he has repainted it as it matches all the other repaints.

Only an MT painted example Griff

MT? .... I am missing something here am i not?

As in black paint found in the MT`s Dept (military transport)

Hi Griff,
The answer to this question is quite simple no "authorised a/a black motto" by Gaunt or any other manufacturer was ever officially made. Troopers simply blackened there badges while on active service with any black paint they could get their hands on.
Whether it be from a spray can from the Regiments M.T or Humbrol paint from Woolworths.
This practice was indeed authorised by the M.O.D for Regiments on active service (N.I).
This information is clearly & concisely described in Chapter 20 "subdued badges" in Chris Marsh's Anodised Aluminium: The "No Bull" Cap badge of the British Army.
Chris's book is packed full of information which has been painstakingly researched through official Government records. A must for any serious Motto collector!

However, a black Motto a/a badge does exist! I believe when the Regiment served in Hong Kong an a/a badge may well have been commissioned. This would have been sold in the P.R.I shop in Hong Kong. This Motto was not an officially produced /sanctioned badge by the M.O.D.
I do believe a fellow Forum member has such an item in his collection?
Regards
Colin

Colin

Excellent and thank you. Is the example(s) I have shown the Hong Kong PRI variety or the MT paint job? .......Sek Kong NAAFI probably.

The NAAFI is the building on the right.... and the hours I spent in the swimming pool to the left were countless :D
http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/china.../day10_002.jpg

hi Griff, this is a very common way to coat alu, I think you will find this is your "powder coat"
Anodising

Sulphuric anodising is an electrolytic treatment for aluminium that produces a coating of aluminium oxide. This coating exhibits excellent corrosion resistance and can be dyed in a variety of colours. The coating is available up to around 25 microns in thickness (beyond this thickness, hard anodising is required). Clear (natural colour) coatings are typically 5 to 15 microns and dyed (coloured) coatings are typically 10 to 25 microns.

Colour Anodising

Anodising can be coloured by dyeing the anodic film. Our standard colours are:
•Clear/natural/silver coloured (no dye) anodising
•Black anodising
•Red anodising
•Blue anodising
•Green anodising
•Orange anodising
•Bronze anodising
•Gold coloured anodising
•Purple anodising
all the best andrew

Black Mottos
 

I have been talking to a few friends on the Regimental web site.

In the 70s in NI Mottos were painted black it became the norm to have them done with blackboard paint as this was none reflective and done by the SQMS dept one former SQMS confirms this as it was done in his caravan at the Gas works as Mottos became chipped the lads would exchange them.

Moving on to the 1980s I joined the Regiment on the 12th December. I remember various exercise mottos. I know we sent A sqn to the Maze and Black Mottos were used some say they painted there's some say they purchased them.
I know one guy who has the Gun Metal Motto still and two who have the powder coated one I shall try and get photos asap.

Rgs Mac

Good stuff Mac... provenance is everything :) It will be good to see some photos of them in use as well... if thats possible?

Ive just read the proposed dress regs for the new Royal Lancers and it mentions a subdued bronze motto for field wear by officers,but nothing in the or`s section.

Not Military , either Motor or Mechanical

Have a guy sending his Motto from NI and a picture of him wearing it with another lad