Essex 2nd V.B.
 

Hi All,

Opinions welcome on this Essex 2nd Vol. Btn badge please. Heavily blackened, so may be affecting the detail..have viewed fatherofthree's album which includes some of these, and this badge seems to be lacking the detail of his badges.

Cheers in advance, Mark

Very poor casting, it should be cleanly die struck and have sharp detail. Also I personally wouldn't buy one of these with only 2 lugs, it should have 3. :)

badge
 

Cheers,

Mark

Hi Parabellum, i have a similar badge though a different strike to Mikes and with much more fine detail. Only 2 lugs to the back however and no sign of a 3rd. I have always thought this badge to be the real deal but would like to understand what the significance of the 3rd foot is? Too small for a helmet plate centre so would this be a manufacturers variation? The strike is not the same as Mikes badge in many ways the main differance being the void below the castle. Is this a variation or banger! Not doubting your comments but would like to understand the reasoning.

Many thanks, kind regards, Dave

Hi Dave,
The only 2 I have are for regular battalions (below) and have had their staple loops removed, so in effect there only 2 'lugs' left, if you know what I mean.
However, I thought all of the VB one piece badges that were made, were made with 3 lugs, with the extra behind the crown ?
My opinion and preference only I'm afraid :o
Perhaps someone else knows for sure.

Hi Parabellum,
i have been through FatherofThrees Essex albums which are excellent. I have found some examples of the 2nd VB badge. I think we may be talking about different badges here as there are 2 different sizes. Looking at Mikes badge i think that this one is the helmet plate centre type. Many were adapted for use on the glengarry. 3 loops (sometimes 4) were used on this as you say to fix to the helmet plate. There is a smaller second type which is a purpose made item i presume made for the glengarry but with only 2 lugs. I have compared with examples in Father of Threes and have found similar style and sized ones with only 2 lugs. I have attached a scan of the smaller Essex badge i have alongside that of an adapted HPCP badge for use on the Glengarry. I think your initial comment is appropriate for the HPCP though not for the smaller badge. Thanks for your feedback.
Kind regards, Dave

Thanks Dave,
Without the comparison I would have thought yours was the same size as the more common 'HPC' type.
It's a nice little badge which I haven't come across before. We're the Essex unique in having this smaller badge ?

I have two identical examples of this badge as attached.

Greetings.

Mark, apologies I’ve just read your PM, to save me sending a reply, here it is:
I believe your badge is a poor copy of the larger version of the two 2nd VB Glengarry badges.
Reasons I believe so:
The Sphinx’s head is oversized and generally it’s a poorly defined Sphinx.
Lack of brickwork lines on the Castle.
Lack of definition to the castle outline.
Lack of stippling/pebbling in places on the circlet.
Indistinct Regimental Motto beneath the castle.
As Parabellum rightly states, it’s a poor casting.

Dave, I like you badge and unless it’s the lighting make it look appear to be white metal, I believe it could well be a Senior NCO’s item, if it is in fact white metal.
The main difference to the SNCOs/Officer’s badge in my album, is the font, however, I do have the small issue of an OR’s 2nd VB with the exact same font as yours.
If you look again at my offerings, you will see that the castle and central motifs are completely different between the smaller and larger versions.

Parabellum: The only Essex Glengarry badges I have seen that would have had more than 2 lugs are those issued to the Regular Soldiers and were converted Helmet Plate Centres.

I don’t know if Essex were the only unit to have 2 sizes and style of Glengarry badges for Volunteer Battalions, unfortunately I don’t yet have Glengarry badges to the 3rd and 4th VBs, but I do know they were issued and in both versions; but not certain in different sizes.

Regards
Brian

Thanks for the feedback Brian, the badge isdefinately wm though a little tarnished. There is a green thick felt backing to this badge that has faded badly where exposed to sunlight through the badge. It appears to be a fairly light green from the front but where not exposed to the light is a much darker green. Would this be a sign it is a SNCO`s item? many thanks, Dave

My ten cents (which will be very similar to Brian's comments :))

- The badge in question. I have my doubts due to the general lack of fine detail and the amount of blacking applied.
- Lugs. I have examples for 1st, 2nd and 3rd VBs that I am quite happy with and all of them have two lugs. I can't and won't rule out genuine examples having three but my experience to date has been I've only seen them with two.
- As I understand it the smaller version was the first pattern before then adopting ones that were the same (HPC) size as the regular ones. I don't know if Essex Regt were the only unit to do this.
- For the 2VB there is an officer silvered badge, an OR blackened and I am told an SCNO version, same as OR but the castle is raised clear of the rest of the badge so stands proud.

There should be examples in my forum album and on my website.

All my 3 [to the 62nd ] have 2 lugs one of them is on its original rosette
They are the smaller size 2 ex H K collection one purchased from Geoff Newman They have been posted on here in the past
David

From the photographs, I would say that is certainly not original.

Good morning,
I picked up this Glengarry to the 1st VB Royal West Kent's and only discovered when I opened the envelope it was another smaller type variant.
Then I noticed in the DNW sale in one of the Middlesex lots a lovely officer's Glengarry, which is also smaller.
As we know, officer's of many infantry regiments favoured a smaller badge, and still do to this day, so I'm thinking that these smaller Glengarry's might possibly be for Officer's ?


Neil.

Greetings Dave.

For some reason, I have just seen the above. :confused:

I haven't a definitive answer for you, but I do have a QVC 1st VB Officer's Helmet Plate with the central device on a dark green velvet backing.

Also, have a look at the below; both are crops from pictures of 3rd and 4th VB Officers and SNCOs and there may be a backing behind the badge, as it appears to be a slightly different colour to the headdress.

Attachment 229573 Attachment 229574

If going by both of the above, I would like to think that it shows that yours is either for Officers or SNCOs.

Nothing definite, obviously, purely conjecture on my part, based on what I have to work with.

Regards.

Brian