RN Marksman Badges
 

Hi all,
Can anyone tell me what date the RN marksman badges lost there slings ??
Thanks in advance,
Fez
http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/...ps43e26ca3.jpg

I think the versions without slings are Royal Marine issue

The one on the left is identical to the one I wore in the RN in the 90's
picture of me with said badge below.

Regards Tony

RN Marksman Badges
 

Here's a close up image of my badge (I still have it!)

Tony

This is a pic of the marksman badge above my own, they are much bigger as per WW2. RM would make sense but i think i have seen this type on 70,s-80,s RN uniforms. So i was wondering if with the sling is wartime and without, wartime RM and post war RN ?? If so what date did they change ??
Fez
http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/...psf677b9f9.jpg

RN Marksman Badges
 

Fez

I have sent you a reply to your query.

Pete

RN Marksman Badges
 

Hi all

I have sent Fez a detailed reply to his query but I will provide a quick answer to put everyone out of their misery!

Both the copy of BR81 (uniform regulations) and BR1938 (naval ratings handbook) in use in 1983 show Marksman badges with slings. The copy of BR81 (revised 1984) shows the badge minus slings. It would therefore seem that slings were removed from the badge in 1984 (I seem to recall that there were a lot of little changes to badges, etc, around that time).

However, I should think that some badges with slings continued to be issued for a while after that.

Pete

Hi Pete,
Thanks for the reply, that makes sense that without slinge were worn in the 80,s but what about the crossed rifles without slings and a pre 53 crown above ???

RN Marksman Badges
 

Hi Fez

Sorry about that! There is one simple reason that I didn't mention the rifles minus slings surmounted by a King's Crown - and that is because it is not an RN Marksman badge. Apart from the basic crossed rifles the only addition to the Marksman badge was a star above the rifles. This denoted a First Class Marksman between 1890-1920. RN Marksman have never worn a Crown above the Crossed Rifles.

What you have is a Royal Marines badge denoting a Section Commander of Best Shooting Musketry Detachment of Year (or something like that!). This badge was worn on Drill Order No. 3 Dress.

Royal Marines Marksman badges followed the Army pattern and did not have slings. The Army stopped having slings on its Marksman badges in 1874.

Sorry again for forgetting to mention that one!

Pete

Thats great Pete, very much appreciated :-D

Confused by this image, Royal Yacht Ratings, front row left has a marksman badge...

http://www.godfreydykes.info/royal%2...w.jpg?03300D7C

I always understood the badge with star above became obsolete in 1920 but this would seem to show such a badge in the mid-50s. Was this a special concession to the uniform of Royal Yachtsmen, there were plenty of them...

RN Marksman Badges
 

Hi everyone

An interesting question re the Royal Yacht crewman wearing a Marksman's badge that appears to have a star above it - a badge that ceased to be issued in 1920.

I have checked through my manuals from the 1930's to the 1960's and the only Marksman's badge referred to at all is the basic one minus the star.

I have also checked the Uniform Regulations for H.M.Y. Britannia. There is nothing in the information I have about the crew wearing special Marksman's badges with stars. I have also checked through my own Royal Yacht badges and I do not have one similar to the one shown.

The only thing I can think of is that they were using up old stock. Crew members of the Royal Yacht tended to serve for many years - many would transfer to her and stay for the rest of their service. Consequently few new badges would have been needed.

If this picture was taken in the mid-1950s then H.M.Y. Britannia would just have come into service. The previous Royal Yacht, the Victoria and Albert, became an accommodation vessel in 1939 and never served as a Royal Yacht again. There was a gap of nearly 15 years before the next Royal Yacht entered service. It is possible that Stores retained a stock of old badges which they issued pending the manufacture of new badges. Such things are not unheard of. Royal Marines Bandsmen were still being issued with pouch badges bearing the King's Crown until about 1971 - simply because there were so many of them in Stores. This is only guesswork but it's the best I can come up with!

Pete

Hi Pete,

The only problem I have with that idea is that I feel it hinges on these being white badges as they were the only set of badges specific to RY service, gold on No. 1 uniform being standard other than the addition of the Royal Yacht arm title.

It would also require that white badges were issued to Yachtsmen for No. 2 uniform prior to HMY Britannia being commissioned for the earlier pattern of marksman badge to be made in white and I've been informed elsewhere that's not the case and that white badges were introduced instead of red for Royal Yacht service in 1952-53, quite happy and hopeful of being corrected on that point however.

Otherwise these would be standard gold badges (save the arm title) and then there's no reason to my mind for the earlier pattern of marksman badge regarding using up old stocks.

Confusing indeed. I suppose the big question is, were they issuing white on blue badges prior to 1920?

RN Marksman Badges
 

Hi Simon

As I said, it was only a guess! The bulk of the information I have re Royal Yacht Uniform Regulations relates to the Britannia. I have only small bits of information about the rig worn on earlier Royal Yachts and nothing which helps with our problem here.

However, as I said, I can find nothing anywhere which refers to Marksman's badges being worn with stars by anyone after 1920.

I will have to do a bit more digging!

Pete

Indeed, as I say if the wearing of white badges pre-dates 1952 it would certainly make your theory a possibility :D

Look forward to hearing if you find anything more! Will do some digging myself...

Simon