23rd Battalion Canadian Expeditionary Force Button
 

Hello

I spotted this button on ebay recently and whilst I am almost 100% certain that it is NOT as described, is there some Canadian button expert who can confirm that this is not military but civilian for the Corporation of Montreal! It certainly seems to read 'Corporation Montreal' as far as my tired old eyes can see.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1217107356...b0e635124&cp=1

Eric Smylie's book 'Buttons of the Canadian Militia' shows a very different pattern of button for the 23rd but is there any possibility that they did use this button as an interim pattern? After all, stranger things have happened.

I have asked the seller if he has any information to support his description but so far no reply.

Regards
Roger

Hi Roger, The 23rd was recruited across Canada but was called a Montreal battalion. I think the button may have a municipal connection. (It should not be confused with Concordia U, which was not formed until the 1970's.)

23rd Bn CEF
 

Hi Roger

The 23rd Bn CEF was known as the Montreal Battalion. As you say, the usual button is nothing like the one on e-bay. I also agree that it appears to read "Montreal Corporation".

I would have thought it was more likely to be worn by a city employee. The thing is though, the 23 bn cap badge is very much the same design as the button except with the wording "Montreal/23/Battalion".

So, it's possibly a first pattern for the unit but I think more likely civilian.

David

Hello Bill and David

Thank you both very much for your swift response.

You have satisfied me that this is a civilian button, so I will pay it no further attention. Interesting to hear that the cap badge is much the same design though. Perhaps that is where the confusion rose originally.

I must say though that recently I have noticed an increasing trend for buttons to be 'confidently' misidentified on ebay as specific military types. When I say 'confidently' I mean that some sellers state quite categorically that it is a military button for XYZ, no ifs or buts, when it is clearly no such thing. Probably just a sign of the (ebay) times!

Thanks again.

Regards
Roger

Hello Roger, A link to the wiki page for the Montreal coat of arms. The four sectors of the oval represent the French, Scots, English and Irish, all significant parts of the population of the city at that time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Montreal

[QUOTE=Cribyn;317027]Hello Bill and David

Thank you both very much for your swift response.

You have satisfied me that this is a civilian button, so I will pay it no further attention. Interesting to hear that the cap badge is much the same design though. Perhaps that is where the confusion rose originally.

I must say though that recently I have noticed an increasing trend for buttons to be 'confidently' misidentified on ebay as specific military types. When I say 'confidently' I mean that some sellers state quite categorically that it is a military button for XYZ, no ifs or buts, when it is clearly no such thing. Probably just a sign of the (ebay) times!

Thanks again



Regards
Roger[/QUOTE


Hi Roger

Probably because "Military" tends to sell better than "civilian" :)

David

Hello David

You are most probably right, although what I don't understand is why sellers don't just state 'unknown button, military/livery?' or similar; that would probably get just as many views on ebay!

Why do some sellers just launch into a detailed but obviously false history? Apart from the button the subject of this thread, I have seen UK local authority buttons positively identified as 'Pals' battalions, modern military looking fashion buttons 'found in France, 1914-1918' and so on. As I said, it seems that if people don't know they just make it up!

I have been collecting military buttons for a long time and can usually spot the duds but a new or young collector could easily be fooled into parting with their cash by some of these statements. As High Wood said in a very recent thread "I would call what this seller is doing misrepresentation which I believe is a criminal offence".

I guess it is the same with badges but as I don't go looking for these I don't see it so often.

Roger

Hi Roger

I know what you mean; a few times I've seen the common Leeds coat of arms pattern buttons (used by most city agencies at one time or another) being advertised as "Leeds Pals". Utter nonsense but it would be logical to a novice collector.

There is certainly no shortage of people around who will say or do whatever it takes to make you part with your hard earned £. It's always been that way of course, the internet has just made it easier.

David

Does anyone collect these buttons as it would be great to see some of the many examples of the CEF battalion buttons.