Post War Royal Canadian Corps of Signals Badges
 

Just want to share these pictures with you Canadians.
This is a follow up to me finally receiving an ex-LtCol's
Mess dress (complete with red striped trousers) + cap,
No1 dress (jacket only) and cap and his BD top + lanyard
+ tassled red sash.
Whats nice about them all is that the jackets are complete
with the badges.
Have enclosed pics of his mess dress bullion para badge and
silver gilt and enamel collars (Gaunt), his No1 dress bronze
collars (Scully) and one of the Royal Canadian Signals cloth
shoulder titles with (above) the CANADA title.
I have his name and if anyone wants some more pics - I am
happy to oblige - within reason - can't spend all day taking
photo's.....
Not sure whether this colour's will come out ok but the
background to all 3 para badges is a dark green.

Trivia: the No1 uniform came from a London tailor - with Scully collars
and the Mess dress came from a Winnipeg with Gaunt collars.

Haven't checked the backs of either of the cap badges.
Research is ongoing.

Nice acquisition. Is there any formation patching on the BD? Image of such if it is there?
Thanks.

Bill,
Nothing on the BD arm at all - and I have had a real good look inside
the arm as well and there is absolutely no sign of any stitching, marks or
otherwise. The pouch belt itself is there - gold bullion thread with a red
leather backing - not sure of the significance of this except that the
blues dress trousers have the red stripe down the side.

Once i have got around to the OSD and dress cap badges I'll post them.
Might take one of the soft top cap as well - it looks good with the "2 way
stretch".
All the best. david

Thanks David. The embroidered shoulder title looks a bit taller than the usual issue. Could you measure the height of the letters.
The RCCS adopted the fully spelled out pattern shoulder title very late in WW2. This may be a late WW2 issue or early post war issue title.

Bill,
The S is 8.4mm high.
Just gone through the pockets and found a S/G/E collar that has obviously
been damaged as the lugs are broken off. Its the left hand one - as you look
at the jacket from the front. Is this of any use to you. Its marked Scully
- but has a non-voided crown - whereas the fitted collar crowns are
voided.... ?? david

Bill, I saw this same statement in the Canadian Badge Index reference the full title shoulder and had meant to ask you about it. I am curious as to the basis of the statement and any material to support it. I say this because the date I have for the full title shoulders is 1948-54. The dates are those found at the Museum in Kingston but I have found some proof that seems to support the 1948 start. CAO 84-1, issued in G.O.s on 23 Jun 47 I believe, speaks to shoulder titles in full. While not spelled out explicitly it does seem to indicate that full titles were 'new'. The copy I have, a copy of a copy in the archives, has a covering memo dated 6 Aug 47 addressed to the respective Director of each corps. In this memo it states that, to proceed with provisioning, that each corps "elect its shoulder title and submit a sample or drawing" so that authorization could be sought. Again, to me this strongly supports that in late 47 the full shoulder titles were just being planned out and that a 1948 introduction date is probable. Not to say none exists but I have yet to see any photographic evidence of these badges being worn during the war. Any light you could shed on this would be well appreciated.

***Correction: In this post I'm talking about the full words shoulder title on two lines while I believe Bill that you were referring to the one line style. I got mixed up with the 'words in full' description you used as that is how I personally refer to the two line variety. Please excuse this confusion. So, the above dates/info are still relevant but are about the badge listed as "Canadian Army Pacific Force pattern" in this site's Canadian Badge Index. If there is any information to support a pre 1948 date I'd still be interested.

The information I have indicates that this style of shoulder title (shortened name but spelled out in full on one line) was introduced in 1954/55 and was worn up until integration. I'd be very interested in any information that indicates it was introduced prior to that.

David, if possible I'd love to have a photo of the shoulder title laying as flat as possible and in a larger size/higher quality.... And of course your permission to use the photo for my website. As Bill says, it doesn't look like the 'usual' variety and I can't say I've seen its like before.

I am off out now but will do it on my return. I do not want to remove the
title from sleeve but can do a hi-res shot of it as flat as possible. I'll post
the restricted one on the forum later and email you the "bigger picture" version. Nice to know that this uniform is helping you guys solve something.
Give me about 2 hours. I assume that the CANADA metals titles on his
No1 dress can't help tie this down any closer. If you want these as well
let me know soonest and I will do them all at the same time.
david

Joe, I have archive material somewhere that indicates the two line spelled out title was the CAPF title, but it is not at hand. When I come across it, I will post it.

Bill,
Here is the one from the right sleeve - as flat as possible...
I had a real look at the bmp picture (I wear glasses for reading) and in
fact there are "tack" marks - I missed them the first time - so there
must have been a patch/formation sign. From the tiny marks it looks
as if it was square or "squarish" and 8/9cms across.
I will email you both hi-res pics of the badge from both sleeves.
If they help you on your web page in any way, please feel free to use them
as long as they are notated in some way I have no problem with you using
them.
I wonder if the missing patches had those press studs at the corners.
I say this because I also have a medal patch with his ribbons and the
para badge in silk as well - this has the studs fitted - is this likely?
If so, and assuming that the patches that have "walked" - will I be able
to get replacements - assuming that there is some way of knowing what
they were in the first place...
If you want me do any more specific measurements, let me know.
Rgds, David

Royal Canadian Signals title
 

Joe, et al, Here is an image of the sample Royal Canadian Signals title submitted for approval in 1945. This image is from Library and Archives Canada.

Hi Joe, Found the LAC documentation for the Royal Canadian Corps of Signals title.
1. Letter from Inspection Board of Canada, Aug 20, 1945. Indicates that pairs of the following titles were being submitted for approval:

• Special Services Canada
• Public Relations Canada
• Royal Canadian Corps of Signals

2. A reply to the above, same date, indicating approval of the said patterns:
BADGES EMB. COLOURED

• D.39980 Special Services Canada (CAPF)
• D.38420 Public Relations Canada (CAPF)
• D.39320 Royal Cdn. Corps. of Signals (CAPF)

3. And the last in this series of documents, a circular to District Ordnance Officers, August 31,1945.
BADGES Embroidered Coloured
1. Hereunder please find revised list of the m/n (?) badges, showing nomenclatures and Catalogue Numbers for both old and new designs:
...
OLD
D39100 RCCS prs

NEW
D39320 Royal Cdn Corps of Signals (CAPF)
Dated 31 8 45

Is there a reason why the No1 dress para badge has a pronounced
blue colour - almost dark indigo - rather than green - as the others
have?
david

Does this mean that the flash read "Royal Cdn Corps of Signals" rather than "Royal Canadian Corps of Signals"?
If so, has anybody ever seen one?

Phil

No Phil, There were some clerical short cuts taken on theses and they used the abbreviation. The title submitted for approval is the two line Royal Canadian Corps of Signals. There never was, as far as I am aware an abbreviated CDN pattern.