The Field Marshal again.
 

Gentlemen and Allison,
Yesterday a link, to that very well known photograph of Bernard Montgomery in Service Dress, was posted, I have certainly never thought of him as short, but, compared to Brigadier Hill?:eek:

According to some sources...FM Montgomery was 5ft 5in. to 5ft 6in.,Erwin Rommel was 5'7.....the Führer, himself 175cm/5ft 9in.

Really? well, certainly from my own point of view, he will always stand taller than a pair of Nazi war criminals.

...Eisenhower was 5ft 10in.,...Patton was 6ft 2in.,...FM Alexander was 5ft 10in.,....


Jo

Not sure that Rommel was a war criminal, he was even admired by Churchill for his generalship
PL

Really?:confused:
Perhaps there was another man with the same name?
The one I refer to was killed by his own government in 1944, although, quite frankly, Johannes Le Roux could have saved them the trouble, if only!:mad:

Frank
you and I clearly have very different opinions of what constitutes a war criminal. Rommel, whatever side he served, was an outstanding soldier and leader, and for that (as a soldier) I respect him. Just because he was a general on the "losing side" doesn't make him a war criminal. Perhaps you would be so good as to explain the exact nature of his war crimes so that I can be as objective as you are ?

PL

Yes, it would certainly appear that we do!:mad:

Perhaps you consider it to be okay for the men under his command to murder civilians, to murder enemy soldiers who had surrendered or very clearly expressed the desire to surrender.
In addition, to murder enemy soldiers simply because they had done their duty for their country and put up a fight and in effect delayed their enemies advance, or to murder them for little more than the colour of their skin.
To use civilians as human shields to cover the advance of your own men, to use your surrendered opponents for the same purpose, or indeed, as cover whilst you extract your own wounded.

That's all okay is it?:confused:
Really?:eek:
I'd say, it was not only "bad" form, but, even by the laws in use at the time, but, actually quite illegal and more than enough to hang him several times.

You refer to the men under his command and not Rommel himself. I will ask once again for a link to the evidence that you cite that makes Rommel a war criminal. I've tried to search for any evidence that Rommel was directly responsible for these crimes or gave orders for these crimes to be committed and am so far struggling to find anything. Perhaps you can steer me in the right direction ?
PL

If this were not so serious, quite frankly, I'd be tempted to laugh out loud, but, I'm certainly not a Nazi apologist and I have no time whatsoever for the complete and utter numpties that are.

I'm staggered that anyone would think that a commander is not responsible for the men under his particular command, perhaps you think that Hitler was not a war criminal either, after all, he did not pull the trigger himself did he?

The reality was that members of the 7th Panzer Division behaved in a most appalling manner in May 1940, as admitted by Rommel himself.
As a small boy, I well remember talking to a gentleman in Hangest who saw French colonial soldiers being killed by the roadside, during that campaign, I remember the tears on his cheeks as he spoke to me, in English, oddly enough, do you seriously think he was a bloody liar?
If so, perhaps you would and clearly should speak to the French Government, there is ample evidence which includes photographic evidence in the ECPArmees in Paris, the Bundesarchiv in Koblenz and the National Archives in Washington.

I posted a simple image of Bernard Montgomery, in addition, I made a comment about his height, I am struggling to understand how we have gone from him to Nazi's and members of the German Army, clearly the two have little in common, other than Montgomery fought against them in two wars.:confused:

Frank,
Can you talk of Monty in North Africa without associating him with a German General called Rommel?
Eddie

Evening Eddie,
I fully understand how and why a great many people believe Rommel to be a complete bloody hero, but, I have to look beyond that, he was an officer in the German Army and served one of the most evil governments that has ever existed.
So for many, the Desert Fox, but, for me, just another Nazi, the odds were against his survival, it would have been interesting to see if he had got through Neremburg alive, I doubt if the French Government would have been happy if he had.

This is the British badge forum, can we please just go back to Bernard Montgomery, to include jokes about his stature, if we must!
Kind regards Frank

Frank
firstly I am not a Nazi apologist and secondly if you were insinuating that I am a numpty then I suggest an apology is in order. Additionally it was you that raised the subject of war criminals, not me or anyone else.
Please do not patronise me with regard to a military leaders responsibilities for his men's actions. Have you ever been a soldier ? If so were you ever in a position where you had command of a significant number of soldiers ? If so did you feel that you were responsible for their every action. I suspect that the answer to questions one and two is no so by default you wont be able to answer question three.
You have failed to produce a scrap of evidence or any links that suggest that Erwin Rommel, personally, was a war criminal, in fact there are many academic studies by far smarter intellectuals than you or I who have reached the conclusion that Erwin Rommel was anything other than a war criminal and would, had he survived the war, been a realistic contender to become the first commander in chief of the fledgling Bundeswehr.
I'm pretty sure that there were "saints and sinners" in the armies of the combatant nations, including the British army, Patton was certainly a little unstable and was even found guilty of ill treating his own troops and perhaps the less said the better with regard to the Russians. In my eyes and those of many veterans of North Africa that I have spoken with, Rommel was as close as you get to an honourable general.
Just my considered views you understand
PL

Well, as we very clearly have absolutely no common ground whatsoever on the subject of Rommel, we will have to agree to disagree.