J.R. GAUNT maker marks
 

Hello Folks,
I am a bit confused by the maker marks from J.R. GAUNT.

It seems the J.R.GAUNT.LONDON 14,65mm lenght is a maker mark faked.
I have a restrike of a Green Howards cap badge with this mark. I also have a modern chromed badge of the Buffs which is actually worn by veterans of the 141st RAC at reunion. It has the same mark J.R.GAUNT.LONDON 14,65mm with the dot between GAUNT and LONDON. But I think it is hard to say it is a fake as it is a modern cap badge sold to the veterans association for reunions.:confused:

To complicate the debat I have an old and worn cap badge for the Royal Norfolk post 1935 pattern, which also has the maker mark J.R.GAUNT.LONDON with dot between GAUNT and LONDON. But its lenght is smaller than the faked mark as it sizes only 11mm:confused:

Do I conclude there is one pattern of J.R.GAUNT mark with a dot between GAUNT and LONDON which is original?

Thumbnails from the left : Original mark 11mm with dot (Royal Norfolk), faked mark 14,65mm (Green Howards), modern chromed cap badge Buffs 14,65mm (veterans reunion cap badge).

Cheers.
J-F

JF,

The smallest mark is indeed correct for WW2 era badges (but only a few). To be honest it is so small I cannot make out a full stop on mine.
The other fonts are indeed seen on modern fakes.

Alan

Thanks Alan, confusion solved for me. You can use the smallest mark in the Maker Marks project if it can help the understanding of the different marks.
Cheers.
J-F

Gaunt
 

The Gaunt London mark is a mark well known to button collectors. It was used to fake many rarer infantry buttons (including several pre 1922 Irish) and in that context is to be avoided at all costs. Needless to say, buttons bearing that mark from 1940-1959 would probably be genuine - including the WW2 cavalry regiments (22D to 27L) but beware any pre 1940 buttons (or badges) with that mark. The name of the offender is available by PM to anyone interested. Regards - and still being careful out there- David

Gaunt Buttons
 

There are indeed lots of fake buttons with the Gaunt mark, the key to these is a miss struck "T" which is almost non-existent.

J. R. Gaunt etc.
 

The REAL key to spotting fakes is to know and understand when badge and button makers used specific marks. Gaunt London is - and always will be - 1940-1959 and no other period ! Please also understand that many of the Gaunt dies were acquired by a spurious party who used them to financial advantage with no regard whatsoever for authenticity - pure greed !!! I am now considering opening a new thread which concentrates on the trend in many posts to over-prescribe the detail on a badge. The further we examine production in the 20th century one thing becomes apparent - the only product to be churned out with greater mass production is the sausage ! Regards to all. David

David,

On that assumption is it accurate that JR Gaunt B'ham would be from 1959 until they stopped production? These have been faked as well of course.

Alan

J. R. Gaunt etc.
 

Alan - Yes, of course, you are right. They were faked by the same person ! The dies really did fall into unscrupulous hands and the villain responsible has caused collectors many a headache. The power of money ! Regards. David

Yes, I have a few JR Gaunt Bham marked bimetal Yeomanry badges. I keep them as gap fillers until I can find a replacement. I have always been suspicious of these as by the 1960s I would guess that they should be in a/a?

Alan

Just for information, I have a couple of 1926 pattern King's Regt officers badges (one S&G and one bronze OSD) which both have stamped marks
JRGAUNTLONDON
LATEJENNENS

Gaunt took over Jennens in 1924 and they must have been trying to publicise the enduring quality of Jennens' products (who mostly only made oficers badges), rather than suggesting that this particular pattern had been on Jennens books as it hadn't existed in 1924 !
(there are a nuber of Jennens books in Gaunt archives at BMAG and NAM)

But continuing the 'dot' debate, I have a 1926 pattern bimetal badge whose slider is J.R.GAUNT.LONDON. I'm 100% convinced that it is a genuine badge and even believe - from my research into KLR typology - that it might date to the 1030s rather than the 2nd WW period.
Julian

what length is the mark Julian?, looks like the restrike mark is about 15mm, and the originals noticeably less - about 10-11mm


mike.


http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/images2/measure.jpg

here is a another at 10.5mm on a SLI shoulder title. I was 100% certain it was ok and the badge has been sold on ebay. just noticed it looks like it has a faint dot.


http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/mak...rks/gaunt8.JPG

Mike,
I've only just got around to measuring;
11.2mm in length and the letters are 0.9mm high.

This one has 2 circular braze holes 3.2mm in diameter (a little larger than many), though I know there is a version without them
Julian

PS I got the date wrong by 900 years - sorry !

Glad to hear that Julian, looks like the small amount of alleged genuine gaunt with a dot marks reported are noticeably shorter in length, similar to the other good gaunt marks. So a different stamp altogether.

updated the gaunt page, with, what I think is the current opinion on the "gaunt dots" and "no dots" saga. (this actually makes sense now - to me anyway)

I think the small variations in length we arrive at when measuring these marks is due the the degree of bulging out of the metal when the stamp displaces the brass, which will depend on the force it's struck with.
anyway, seems to be consistently 15mm and 11mm plus or minus 0.5mm


have also added a 'gaunt, late jennens' onto that page as well, courtesy "Gurkha"