Question about lugs, please help
 

Hi
Simple question from a man lacking basic knowledge.
We’re hexagonal lugs used on both WW I and WW II shoulder titles?
If so, is there any way to determine the era of production?
One other question: were cloth slip on titles worn during both wars?
Thank you for your help.
Mike

Hexagonal lugs
 

Perhaps a photo will be helpful.

A brief answer. I believe hexagonal lugs were introduced before 1900 and shoulder titles with those lugs were in use well after WW2 through to anodised aluminium issues.

Slip-on cloth shoulder titles were issued towards the end of WW1 as a metal saving measure and usually in white embroidery or print/paint on khaki.
Black embroidery on khaki slip-ons were issued for wear on otherwise largely unadorned Battle Dress during early WW2 and although replaced by coloured shoulder titles from around 1943 they continued in use on Jungle Green and Khaki Drill clothing well after.

Tim

Tim
Thank you very much for the information, it is very helpful.
Would a JR Gaunt London makers mark be helpful in establishing the date of the title?
Thanks again.
Mike

Mike,

Have a look here https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/ma...arks/gaunt.htm

Tim

Tim
Thank you
Mike

Yes hexagonal lugs were used on both WW1 and WW2 shoulder titles up until they were replaced in WW2 with cloth titles.

If you are looking for an era of production? then post pictures of the one you want identified.
Your NZ Staff badge would date 1912 to 1920, your cloth title was used in the Pacific by NZ troops in WW2.

Slip on shoulder titles were not worn by New Zealanders in WW1, only the British Section wore a RED New Zealand shoulder title that was sewn on to the sleeve.

Brent

Mike,
Apologies, my reply was about British Army shoulder titles. I failed to notice that you were asking about New Zealand!

Tim

Brent, thank you for the information, I will post a couple of photos as soon as it gets light here.
Tim, no need to apologize I just really appreciate your taking the time to share your expertise.
Mike

Shoulder titles
 

Brent
Here are a couple of photos of the shoulder titles in question.
They are not the best I have taken but hopefully will suffice.
If you need better I will try.
Mike
By the way, except for the AZRB, each of the titles has a JR Gaunt London stamp.

NZMC, NZMR and NZR were issued from 1912 to WW2.
The NZRB was issued 1915 to 1919.

Hi Brent,

Would that mean the brass NZMR and NZR shoulder titles have been reissued in WW2 from WW1 stock ?

Cheers,

Invest

Brent
Thank you for the information.
So the Gaunt marking was evident on titles through WW II?
Thanks again
Mike

J R Gaunt & Son were the official suppliers of NZ shoulder titles and buttons to the NZ Government from 1912 to April 1917, their badges were used as “the sealed pattern.”
The cancelation of Gaunt as an official supplier was due to an investigation by a Captain in the NZ Ordnance Corps who found “Gaunt & Son had been charging an exorbitant figure for N.Z. Pattern Badges etc”
At the time an order of “100 Gross” of NZVC shoulder titles had been ordered by the NZ Government, of which Gaunt had already supplied “77 Gross” when the order for the last “23 Gross” was cancelled.
From April 1917 a tender process was used to supply badges to the NZ Government.
The following document shows the April 1917 tenders where Gaunt are a £1000 more than the tender by Woolley & Co who were awarded the contract.

NZR shoulder titles were also made in New Zealand as I have a stamping die for one in my collection, when I get a chance I will post a picture of it.

Were the brass NZMR and NZR shoulder titles reissued in WW2 from WW1 stock?
Without doubt, WW1 shoulder titles were reissued after WW1 and IMO many were reissued at the beginning of WW2.

https://i.postimg.cc/KjT1Mw2B/1-25-April-1917-a.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/dtm1c8ts/2-Shou...ugust-1916.jpg

Brent, thank you very much for your comprehensive answer.
Mike