19th Hussars (The Elephant Family).
 

i think it is "impossible mission" for me to found a genuine, so i am pleased with a nice 4 GBP fake....:o

but it seems to me that i have read in this forum that old badges must have loops N.S and yours is E.O (but my english is no very good, perhaps i have dont understand very well...)

Here's my copy of the first type.

Noticed the same marks on the reverse of the animal's upper back on this badge as Malc's badge - out of the same die I think. wonder who is making these things? :confused:

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/ima...h_hussarse.JPG



http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/ima..._hussarse1.JPG

Hang on we can't say these are restrikes just because one person has their own personal opinion and has not provided any proof.
The black lugs on mine and the stamping i believe my badge is genuine.

Cheers
Malc

I personally think those where the tail is clearly separate from the body are fine, it's where there's a web between them the problem begins. There are a couple of different dies around for this badge which is surprising (or worrying!) for the small amount of time it was around.

The double scroll version is a real pain though, I'll post a picture of one bought by a dealer on ebay in a mo. Here's my single scroll for comparison first.

19th Hussars (double scroll)
 

As I have said before, without handling the badge you can never be 100% sure, but if I saw either of these badges on ebay, I would not add them to "my watching list", the double scroll 19th is a very rare badge, I have never handled a real one in 55 years.

A possible interesting point here,though there was probably more than one manufacturer/style at that time.
The double scroll 'friendlier looking' elephant shown in Gaylor's book is actually more like Frenchy's badge(possibly cast copy of an origional ?) than any others shown here.With the prominant forehead bump & no extra shoulder hump along the top line of the animal's back.
Something I've always looked for, but never seen yet ,in the 'wild'.
Cheers !
Steve

KIPLING AND KING vol 2 , page 225 about restrikes...

"""....for instance, a cast specimen of the elephant/double-scroll pattern of the 19th hussars (KK790): collectors in those days knew that their chance of obtaining an original of such a badge well-nigh negligible...."""""" :(

Mr Administrator,

I like your badge for a number of reasons.

1. The skilled craftsmanship that has gone into attaching the lugs. There is no sloppy braising.
2. The excellent detail to the bottom scroll and well defined mottling behind the letters.
3. Good reverse detail. The fakes Ive seen have poor reverse detail (blurred).
4. Finally a well formed tail.

If that badge is a repro then its the nearest copy to an original. There could however be a small design change or flaw in the badge which I havent noticed which the people who reproduce the badges include to identify them from the genuine article.

Some people have posted examples with tails that have been struck slightly off centre. These may well be genuine badges but I wouldnt be happy until I owned an example with no problems at all. I'm a bit like a coin collector I want an example in the best condition with the least number of defects.

If I ever obtain an example direct from a vets family I`ll post it here!

I Think This Is A Copy, Any Thoughts
 

Saw this for sale recently. Any comments, I believe it is a very bad copy. And, any idea on the price for a real double scroll version as I know where I can get one from; but not sure on the price.

19th Hussars (The Elephant Family).
 

Hi All,

After discussions with other forum members I thought I should post the much talked about 19th Hussars double scrolled strike.

I have posted 2 variants, see attached photos. All thoughts and views much appreciated.

3748 Hussar

Hello 3748 Hussar,
I have a genuine 19th H double scroll elephant. The 1st elephant shown, with lugs, is a re-strike having too much detial on the trunk, ear, cheek and knees. The toe nails are totally different too. The badge fitted with a slider is much nearer to being a genuine double scroll badge.
The originals were made with both lugs and sliders. Though it has been suggested (no proof) that only about a dozen were ever produced.
My grandfather, Arthur Fleet, served in the 19th Hussars during the Boer War and WW1. I have lots of 19th H photographs covering the period that the double scroll badge was supposed to have been worn but not one shows it being in use. Does anyone have a clear photograph of this badge being worn?.
All good wishes,
Peter

19th Hussars Double Scroll Elephant
 

Hi Peter

Your post is positively one of the most exhilarating contributions to this Forum since I joined. At long, long last we are getting very close to being able to identify the authenticity of the famous "double scroll" elephant with seriously increased degrees of confidence.

I knew Sid Luscombe well from the good old days of badge collecting, we were both members of the Southern Branch of the Military Historical Society, so ably lead by Gordon Dine. We used to meet in the Keep of the castle in Dorchester, formerly the home of the Dorset Regiment, once a month and look at various badges with varying degrees of envy.

One of my fondest memories was the ocassion when Sid (he was never Sidney then) produced the Double Scroll, even in those days a badge of great wonderment. I have to admit I was actually allowed to hold it for a very short while. (I contemplated doing a runner and looked at the arrow slits. My bulk being greater than their width plus the fact we were on the third floor dissuaded me,) but it was a very distinct highlight of my time in this hobby.

You are right in saying that these survived in this country in very small numbers. Hugh King told me he believed there were only six. I wish I knew what happened to the rest.

Hugh King's sold at auction not that long ago. If we could find the present owner and compare the two badges it would give us a baseline for future identifications.

I will PM you on one or two ideas.

Best wishes

Gordon

19th Hussars H.M.Silver double scroll badge
 

Please find attached pictures of the badge,
regards
Alan

Hi alan, what do the hallmarks tell us ?
regards paj1

Hi Paj,
Its Bent and Parker 1902 - 03
Regards
Alan