C&T Auction
 

Hi All,

the following rare Guards Cadet Training badge is in the upcoming C&T auction.

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...e-aa0c00e008a7

I personally think it's a copy, but would like opinions as I am no expert.

I think it's bad because:

The letters are too thin
some letters seem to be at slightly different angles to bona fide ones I have seen
the back has very poor detail
the front centre is poorly defined and too shallow.

As these are rare and command quite high prices, I think it is worth having a critical look at them, given there will be forum members (like me) who would dearly like one and I would hate to see someone pay good money for this, if it is indeed a fake.

I look forward to any and all replies.

Cheers, Tim

Hi Tim,

I'm not expert but the couple I have seen appear much nicer quality than this example.

Cheers,

Roy

The only original example I have been able to examine was in a display in the 1st Battalion Coldstream Guards Sergeants mess and would agree with Roy that this example appears to lack the quality of the one I saw, particularly lettering.

Simon.

hey guys
i also agree with your thoughts.
not a genuine item
bc

Here is my genuine example ....
Regards
Alan

Thanks to you all for giving your opinions. Looks like yet another auction house has little interest in vetting items. If I can see this didn't look right, presumably it is blindingly obvious to someone with some knowledge in the matter.

Thank for you pic as well Alan, glaringly obvious the different between yours and the Auction badge. Hopefully we have collectively saved someone their money with this thread.

Cheers, Tim

Did the originals have lugs? I always thought they had blades though I have never actually seen one.
Cheers,
Alex

C&T Auction
 

Why does almost everyone have a down on auction houses. If we, as a collective forum, have to pool our knowledge to get a consensus of opinion why do we expect one man in an auction house to have a greater store of individual knowledge?

I am aware that C&T do seek outside expertise on items they auction. My opinion of C&T is high, but everyone makes a mistake. He who has never bought a dud badge can throw the first stone.

Stephen.

Hi Alex,

I have only ever seen luged ones.

Stephen,

I respect that you have a different opinion, but for me, a seller of Militaria and one that states on its website to be "one of the leading specialist UK Militaria auctions within the UK" should be held to a high standard, especially as they are valuers as well. The fact collectors may have (well, will have) fakes in their collections is no excuse for an expert (who, as you state, seek outside assistance as well) to have what appears to be quite a crude fake being sold as original. I get that people make mistakes, but Auction houses are increasingly offering items that even I can see are fake. If C&T are holding themselves up to be militaria experts, then they need to live up to that statement, in my opinion.

Cheers, Tim

Stephen,

I am with you without Auction houses my collection would be much the poorer. As a buyer I'll always ask for more pictures and condition reports before bidding. While the onus is on the Auction house to describe the item as accurately and honestly as possible it is also incumbent on the buyer to know what they are bidding on and be happy to do so. I have never been declined extra pictures or a condition report.

No one forces us to bid!

Regards

Mark

Well said, Tim. Couldn’t agree more.

I have no opinion as to the badge in question here, but agree entirely with your main points.

Yes, we are all human and all fallible, but fair’s fair. If you’re claiming to be Charlie Big Potatoes, then you need to be able to back it up.

JT

Hear, hear.

C&T Auction
 

In an ideal world auctioneers and those cataloguing items would know their stuff, but they are only human, just like members of the forum.

I know it is a shame that rural auctioneers don't get it right by our standards but you have to consider their position, and that of those wishing to sell.

If you are executers of a will you probably know very little about the items you wish to dispose of. It would be likely that in a rural area your first port of call would be your local auction house [Charterhouse for example]. The local staff are used to dealing with house clearance and bankruptcy Lots so would deal with executers in the same manner. Little specialist knowledge can be expected from them.

I still feel that we are applying double standards in respect of C&T, Bosleys etc. Whilst their standard should be higher than the rural houses, we cannot expect them to be perfect, and we cannot hold them to account as individuals. Caveat Emptor.

Buyers should apply due diligence before bidding. We have the added benefit of on-line specialists to help us. Perhaps Steven Bosley, and Matthew Tredwen should join as members and improve their knowledge. Oh, sorry, members might complain if known dealers use this site for the improvement of their business....

Stephen.

Was that really necessary?

Absolutely no need for sarcastic side-swipes. It was a perfectly friendly discussion before that.

Totally uncalled for.

JT

I have made comment that in my opinion this badge that started this thread is wrong however I have bought from C&T and will continue to do so. I will make my own decisions and in the end, if I am not sure, I usually put a pic up here on this forum and get an answer, or i just don't buy it.
I also don't mind dealers advertising on this site. I have picked up several items I would have missed if certain dealers hadn't alerted me to new listings etc.
one of the benefits of this is peer review. in my opinion, peer review has spoken on the Guards Cadet Training badge and consensus is in
bc