Fe Woodward 1916 All Brass Economies
 

Chaps,

Following an earlier thread I would ask for people to post any pictures they have of 1916 economy badges with either the Wooward mark or any non Woodward ASC or East Surrey badges.

I have photographed my ASC and ESurreys with what I know to be 100% genuine Essex regt badge for comparison. The Woodward ones are both yellower metal and in pristine condition. However these are sold by well known dealers as genuine otherwise I wold be even more suspicious of them. Indeed the 1916 Woodward Inniskillings goes for a large sum and yet it exhibits all the traits of my 2 Woodward badges.

I have never seen a non Woodward ASC or ESurrey so if some one has one then I would love to see it. The East Surrey is just the sort of complicated overlaid badge that should have had an economy version.

Thanks

Alan

woodward
 

Hi Alan, Here's a couple of mine for comparison, economy Inniskillings & a Bucks Battn with the Woodward mark. The Inniskilling slider has the double crimp line, one visible, the other is on the top part of the slider which is bent over, I have this double crimp on a few other badges. All the best, Wilf.

Thanks. Now both of those I really like. The sldiers are a much better shape to the 2 that I have.

Alan

Alan,
Here are a couple of mine.
1.One I'm happy with, a Monmouthshire as worn by all three Battn's on service dress.
2.Reverse of the above with Woodward marked on a long slider and double crimp marks. The font would appear to match those on the badges in the previous posts.
3.One I've got grave doubts about, a Montgomeryshire Yeomanry.
4.Reverse with a larger font and not too happy about the title scroll as it only has two tangs to connect to the main badge, all the genuine ones I have, have three tangs. I regard this to be a fake.
5.The reverse of the two together to show the different fonts.
Hwyl,
Kevin

Thanks, I would agree about the MY one. Close inspection of the MY mark shows the double OO are just that - 'rounded' as a complete circle. Where as the Monmouth Regt ones are oval in shape like a '0'. The ones shown earlier are the same.

Just to add confusion both mine seem to match the '00' shape on your correct badge so I can't discount them at the moment.

Thanks

Alan

Named sliders
 

I regard all named other ranks cap badges sliders with suspicion, they appear to have become more prolific in the last 10 years. Where have they been since 1918? In Grandad's collection!

Alan,

Promised myself I leave the forum alone for today but feel like I need to answer.

The economy Skins Woodward badge I won off ebay hasn't arrived yet so I can't say hand on heart it feels right, but the reason for me buying it was simple and not to do with the Woodward stamp but the die. If there's one thing I've learnt on the forum its: if its from the right die its OK no matter how it looks - like that '02 Dorsetshire you showed me Alan which to be honest looked pretty ghastly but was from the same die as mine and yours genuine examples so must have been genuine despite looking very dodgey to the point where if I found it at a fair I wouldn't touch it... but I suppose its just the way things are kept and age in part.

I hope you don't mind Wilf but I've borrowed your pic to illustrate my point.
The woodward die appears to have a flaw on the bottom part of the towers bases, I've highlighted the area on a couple pics followed by highlighting the lines themselves.

If you have questions of mine being a restrike from the same die then why aren't they all restrikes? I'm sure if they were being made we'd see more of them but I think I can only claim to see about one a year (definite crap aside).

The colour of the badge can be down to many things and it might be with my one Alan which I'm sure your very sceptical about due to the conditions it was kept it, or even the lighting from the flash in the photo... Saying that, it could be the conditions Lew's and Wilf's we kept in to send them a darker colour as like you say Woodward's badges do seem to be slightly more brassy. But then again this could also be down to the explaination as I suggested on a previous thread that it is to do with the company Woodwards were sourcing their metal from in that period.

Secondly the dealer who's on the forum btw has listed two lots of badges over the last month and I didn't see anything amongst his listings that looked restrike or made to decieve... indeed I even bought an East Lancs off him and its the best one I have by far, this '16 Skins is also the rarest item he's listed by far no VB's coming out your ears so I believe he got them from a reliable source and was happy with the authenticity of all his badges. To quote the old line "if it looks like a duck and hangs out with ducks its probably a duck."

Having said all that I haven't felt the badge and may end up eating my words but if I get it and its duff I'll stand up like a man and admit it on here before I send it back. 'till then I'm happy its OK with everyone elses.

Cheers,

Luke

And Wilf's lovely badge showing the same die lines

Luke, No problem with you using the pics, well spotted. Here's a copy I had as a gap filler, without those flaws !!! Cheers, Wilf.

Thanks for the input on the Inns. I had not examined the die flaw that closely. It was not the Inns badges that I was doubting, but the ASC and ESurreys that I have. The fact that well known dealers hold the Inns badges as genuine yet they have the same mark and yellow metal, is why i have not dismissed the ASC or ESurreys. The existance of badges such as the ones shown is in their favour. What I would really like to find in a non Woodward example of either.

Hope I did not worry you unnecessarily before your new one arrives.

Alan

Cheers Wilf, that gap filler is the usual copy without the rather 'bulbus' 4th flame from the right... which you also get on genuine RMF economies. :)

Cheers,

Luke

Alan,

It's alright, you didn't worry me (for long) I'd already taken all what I said into account before bidding and decided that it was genuine... was actually prepared to go higher than I won it for as I was that convinced.

As for E.Surrey Woodwards I can't help you out, I don't own one and my uncle (who's got a far better '16 collection than me) doesn't have one he's happy with... and its not Woodward stamped btw! lol

There is a Woodward marked ASC on ebay at the moment, prehaps the seller can provide you with a pic of the back to help you decide on them.

Luke

Alan,

Just been on the phone to my uncle and he has a Woodward stamped Royal Fusiliers badge he got when we both started out over ten years ago and he says it's very yellow... I suppose if you doubt a Royal Fusiliers badge you can still pick up for under a fiver we're all doomed.

My personal opinion is that these Woodwards are OK, although they're more yellowish than GM they're still not a bad yellow like you get the cheap restrike Leinsters etc made out of.

Having said that I trust no badge on the sole being of it having a makers name! Condition/die to me will always be paramount.

Luke

Oh Alan, my uncle does have an genuine E.Surrey '16 issue (no makers mark)... I'll email you a pic when I can get one probably Monday OK?

Hi Alan,
I have an economy version of ASC by F.E.Woodward as well unamed economy versions.At the moment they are in a frame I will get a photo posted for you to compare.
Regards
Bantam

Chaps,
Thank you for your help. Looking through Bosley's lists shows up some more Woodwards economies so the question is are mine OK or fakes like the MY one?

Alan