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-   -   RASC "possibly" Fleet Cap Badge (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22307)

Fatboy Ken 18-01-12 02:08 AM

RASC "possibly" Fleet Cap Badge
 
I need some opinions on one of these "Collar" badges, also i've given front and back images, and "all" comments are welcome.

It has the Die Fault of the one stated in the book entitled;

Badges & Insignia of the RASC, RCT & their Predecessors



The book in not important, just opinions please, as it is a very strange collar badge to say the least, ..... as some of you will no doubt agree.

Just for the record, "IT" the collar badge cost me £6.50 incl of p&p

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=60199

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=60200

Thanks in advance for all your comments FBK

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=60201

This is an image from the book, please remember that my badge is worn by polishing. The badge should have a slider attached to the rear, and not "LUGS", that's the reason for "opinions" the book image shows slightly the "slider" to the rear.

PLEASE LOOK BELOW, IMAGES ADDED

badjez 18-01-12 09:35 AM

RASC Fleet
 
Ken,

I cannot open the imbedded pictures. can you attach then using the 'paperclip' file attachment button?

Stephen.

jeep 18-01-12 09:58 AM

Same here, links do not work.

DAVID B HOWELL 18-01-12 10:25 AM

Hi Ken

And again your links do not work

David

engr9266 18-01-12 10:31 AM

HA HA MINE WORK :D:p

Fatboy Ken 18-01-12 12:25 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Hiya guys

Second attempt, we are looking at the middle badge .

Attachment 56896 (Front View) Same die fault as in the book

Attachment 56897 (Rear View) Should have a slider attached, but the lugs are too close together for a normal collar, IMO

Attachment 56898 (Image from Insignia & Badges of the RASC ,RCT & their Predecessors) Note the die fault in the lower left of the badge, between 6+9 oclock

badjez 18-01-12 01:42 PM

RASC Fleet
 
Ken,

Nice badges. As regard to whether or not this is RCT Fleet may be debatable. I thought the unique feature of the RCT badge was that it was a collar badge with a slider. I would expect to find the same die being used for both the RCT cap badge and a collar dog. Yours may well be a collar dog from that die.

Stephen.

Fatboy Ken 18-01-12 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badjez (Post 151091)
Ken,

Nice badges. As regard to whether or not this is RCT Fleet may be debatable. I thought the unique feature of the RCT badge was that it was a collar badge with a slider. I would expect to find the same die being used for both the RCT cap badge and a collar dog. Yours may well be a collar dog from that die.

Stephen.

Hi Steve The badge you are looking at is RASC, and yes it should have a slider, but if it was removed and 2 lugs fitted, for some reason, then it could be, maybe one of them ?? The lugs are far too close together to be added at the factory, as they are unusually close to the centre of the badge. Good point about the collars though, but i'd have thought "Normal Collar Badges" would keep the manufacturers prices down. FBK

fougasse1940 18-01-12 05:25 PM

Your middle collar certainly looks to be from the same die, but I believe the Fleet badges came with a slider, so no traces of lugs?

Rgds,

Thomas.

Fatboy Ken 18-01-12 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fougasse1940 (Post 151116)
Your middle collar certainly looks to be from the same die, but I believe the Fleet badges came with a slider, so no traces of lugs?

Rgds,

Thomas.

Hi Thomas, exactly so, but as stated, the lugs in question look to have been added, also there is no mark (on the rear ofthe crown) where a slider would have been attached either. Cheers Ken

fougasse1940 19-01-12 03:21 AM

One die, two badges; one collar with lugs, one cap badge with slider, methinks.

Rgds,

Thomas.

Fatboy Ken 19-01-12 04:05 AM

That is most probably the answer to my question Thomas, "Cap & Collar" badges from the same "Die". As there are no (Previous) marks on the back of this badge, behind the crown, to suggest anything other than Collar" badge.

My problem is as follows;

RASC Motor Boat Companies (MBC's) had a "Collar" sized cap badge made for wear in their "Berets", they werer manufactured as a cap badge "with" Sliders attached, they were not converted from existing collar badges, and it should be noted that a "DIE FAULT" exists, running between the void of the Garter Belt and RASC Banner.

1. Garter Belt = below "Honi"
2. RASC Banner = "Royal Army S"

I do not believe that the MBC's hierarchy would pay an excess amount of money, from the "RASC funds" to make collar badges over and above surplus to requirements, especially when they already have a issue from stores.
kind regards Ken

(Images to follow shortly)

Fatboy Ken 19-01-12 04:44 AM

Here are better images for you

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=60264 Front

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=60265 Close up, even the letters are identical to the original

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=60266 Rear Close up

fougasse1940 20-01-12 01:12 AM

I do not believe that the MBC's hierarchy would pay an excess amount of money, from the "RASC funds" to make collar badges over and above surplus to requirements, especially when they already have a issue from stores.
Stranger things have happened...

"Close up, even the letters are identical to the original"
IMHO both cap and collar are "original".

Rgds,

Thomas.

Fatboy Ken 20-01-12 02:34 PM

Hiya Thomas, that's what I've wanted, someone else to confirm, that even the letters and words are identical.

The "A" & "R" in "ARMY" are identical to the original, and show exactly the same fault, which is to be expected if "1" Die was to be used, I now have 2 separate images of this badge, and all 3 are identical, apart from this one having "LUGS" fitted. :confused::confused:

The word "SERVICE" is also identical, in the other 2 images I have, in that the word is not "straight and even" as would be expected, and the "C" & "I" are the same.

All these irregularities (IMO) point to this badge being made/struck on the "cheap", and no one checking the end results. Speed was of the essence, and for that reason, I think "Collars" was not in the equation when this was being made.

Who actually made the badge ??? (It wasn't a recognized manufacturer) ??

As I said before, I do believe that your opinion is the most probable, but I'll have to look further into this, If that's possible ?

Also, reference these lugged collars, ...... there should be a larger amount in circulation, given that you'd be expected to wear 2.

There were about 20,000 men in the RASC MBC's, mostly in the Amphibious DUKW's, during the 2nd WW, serving well into the late 1950's. That is a hell of a lot of collar badges coming from a single "Die", and it gives me cause to doubt (only slightly) that there are not more of these types of collars floating about.

The Lugs have me concerned because they are far too close to the central edge of the garter belt, whereas all other collar badges have the "LUGS" fitted to the outer points of the star. Until more show up, so that we can compare them together, I'll have to place this badge as "Unusual Variant".:o

I also do agree that "stranger things have happened", especially in this army of ours, knowing how it works. :(


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