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-   -   WW2,British POWs in Normandy.1944. (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4547)

Voltigeur 16-12-08 04:38 PM

WW2,British POWs in Normandy.1944.
 
A few photographs,taken in Normandy, of British POWs wearing their cap badges and some insignias.
Jo
Can you identify the unit? (Enlarged,it looks like 3 or 4 CLY)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sgefangene.jpg

Rifles Brigade.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sgefangene.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sgefangene.jpg

This last one is interesting in that the soldier on the right is wearing a metal title which,enlarged, seems to be 4CLY.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sgefangene.jpg

Jibba Jabba 17-12-08 11:12 AM

4th County of London Yeomanry - The Sharpshooters - 7th Armoured Division.

That is your answer.

Interesting to note the missing cap badges from the berets? I`d be interested in an explanation of that. I was told that the Germans did not remove cap badges from prisoners.

Voltigeur 17-12-08 12:30 PM

Thanks Jibba Jibba for the info. But, I thought that metal titles had been banned,on BD,replaced by cloth titles from around 1940.Then you have these troopers wearing them. A yeomanry distinction?
Jo

Jibba Jabba 17-12-08 01:15 PM

I forgot to say that the 3rd and 4th CLY became one regiment for D-Day.

It was an unoffical practice to wear a brass title on the shoulder straps after 1941 and it would seam that cloth titles were not always worn. I wonder if those are the original BD's as issued for North Africa? Arms regs may of banned them, but at the end of the day it all depends on what the Commanding Officers says you can wear, that person in my opinion is the decision maker.

These men look very much like those captured by Panzer Ace SS-Obersturmführer Michael Wittmann at Villers-Brocage (if that how its spelt?). In which case those other men are 1st Battalion Rifle Brigade.

Voltigeur 17-12-08 01:50 PM

Thanks again Jibba Jibba,much appreciated. The place is Villers-Bocage.
Jo

Jibba Jabba 17-12-08 02:19 PM

No problem. I still would like to know why the cap badges are missing?

Bill A 17-12-08 03:23 PM

JJ, I have heard that the badge was to be removed by the soldier upon capture to hinder the enemy in identification. How that works with a fully patched bd is an interesting question.
In the first photo link, the soldier appears to be wearing a strip of material above the sweat band. It appears to be the same as the backing for the badge. What is that strip?

Jibba Jabba 17-12-08 03:45 PM

....see that bulge in his top pocket.....or just look in his pay book :D

My best guess about that band....... To shape the beret on the head......a beret band as it is sometimes called.

Voltigeur 17-12-08 04:03 PM

Hi Bill, hoping you are doing OK. As for the vertical piece, I would say, a badge backing to the 4CLY,looks kind of dark green....... As for the beret band, I would venture something along the line of dress distinction for the 4CLY (different for 3CLY?), same colour as the backing. I think that officers for the 3rd or 4th CLY ??? had a devil,in red,on a round dark blue cloth,on the beret (had one years ago,I let it go for next to nothing,didn't know at the time what it was.)
One more question. Why no shoulder title of the RB ???
Jo

Jibba Jabba 17-12-08 04:17 PM

Are you sure you dont mean the Inns of Court Reg, the Devils Own?

Voltigeur 17-12-08 04:32 PM

Yes Jibba Jibba, you are absolutely right. MY mistake.Thanks for correcting me.
Jo

Jibba Jabba 17-12-08 04:50 PM

Sounds like a fantastic beret. Do you have any photographs of it? I guess finding another would be near impossible now the badges do appear from time to time on Bosleys lists.

Michael Reintjes 17-12-08 05:57 PM

"JJ, I have heard that the badge was to be removed by the soldier upon capture to hinder the enemy in identification. How that works with a fully patched bd is an interesting question.
In the first photo link, the soldier appears to be wearing a strip of material above the sweat band. It appears to be the same as the backing for the badge. What is that strip? "

I think he's actually wearing his beret inside out,perhaps done when he saw the Jerry snapping photos.... I saw these photos and a bunch more on the Bundesarchiv site.

Jibba Jabba 17-12-08 06:11 PM

Hi Michael....WW2 berets have liners I dont think the beret is inside out because of this. Also it should be a little rectangular leather patch that sits inside the beret. The liner could of been removed but thats going to make the beret very hard to make parade worthy.

I was wondering earlier about the band being some form of recognition for HQ Squadron since they were captured in this engagment however I can find no reference to bands being worn on berets for this purpose in the British Army. I welcome posts from people who will put me right on that fact.

Each man carried his pay book with him at all times. So throwing badges away and ripping badges off the BD will not help. If you've ever picked up a WW2 pay book look inside, ever wondered why the address is inked out?

iain 17-12-08 08:15 PM

hi jo, just had a quick look through some of the R.B. chronicles and pre war they wore the blackened brass R.B. titles, then during the war i thought they switched to the slip on type but cant find any pictures of them wearing these,all pictures i have looked at only one showed titles and that was the 8th batt normandy june 1944 at Epsom ,then from '45 onwards it seems every one is wearing them ,so maybe it was upto individual battalions if they wore them or not in the field? it would be interesting to find out though. iain


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