Two unknown shoulder belt plates
 

Hello everybody!
It is not my area,I collect german badges and coins.
But have got these two nice royal belt plates,and hope to get some help about it.
Need your opinion about authentic.If they are real,need help to identificate periods and the regiments.
Thank you!

I have seen a button with the second coat of arms listed as Hannover-Lüneburg.

Hi Lex
In my opinion, both are genuine … tho' concerning the first ; I must admit, this is the first time I have seen an insignia to the Honourable Artillery Company displaying the POW plumes !? Regards Jeff

PS: At a guess, I would date this as c.1790. According to Parkyn, oval SBPs were gradually phased out by 1825.
PPS: Is it Hallmarked by any chance ?

PM sent , agree both look original , 1790s sounds about right.
Cheers steve

Hi Lex, Lovely items, glad they have appeared to turn out ok, thanks for sharing, Regards Mark

Thank you all very much,very appreciated for you help!
Separate thanks to Jeff Mc William for a very open answer.
When I saw these pieces by a local antique shop,I thought they are probably real,but about a hundred years old.But it is very well to know,that they are even double old:)
Have done new photos of them.Maybe some one find them in catalogs,please let me know.

Have found this arms of Norton.Looks not so far from the plate,I guess.

I am not very good in heraldik,does someone know,when a lion and a shield have a crown at the same time and when a lion has not?

Probably Dutch
 

Hi Lex
Thanks again for sharing your magnificent SBP "finds". However, I think you are mistaken concerning the second item. In my opinion it is definitely not British .. most probably Dutch as in the attached coat of arms, or as btns says, possibly German. Regards Jeff


Attachment 208548

Hi Jeff,thank you!
I believe you are right.I just have never seen it before and thought,that they are all from the Great Britain's regiments.Did germans have such plates as a part of uniforms?

Here is the coat of arms of the Princes of Lüneburg:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:...3%BCneburg.svg

However, this coat of arms has hearts, not blocks and the lion is not crowned.
The button I used for identification has hearts and a crowned lion.
It may not be Lüneburg after all.

The little blocks in the shield ('billets' in heraldic terms, I think) would indicate it's Dutch. Note the 'double' tail on the lion, which is also significant.

Hi all
Yes indeed, I do think it is Dutch … more specifically Nassau.
As runic says, the "billets" seem to confirm this. (see attachment). Anyway lex, you have two splendid (and valuable) examples of very early SBPs. Congratulations. Jeff

PS: Did you know that the collars of the Royal Irish Regt also have this insignia on their collars. So there is a connection with Britain … in fact, from 1688 to 1702, this was incorporated in the Royal Arms of Britain ! And, from 1714 to 1837, the Arms of Hannover and Luneburg were also incorporated. Not to mention France (1340 to 1800). So .. connections with Europe have always been strong.

Attachment 208588

Of course: Nassau in Germany.
Napoleon had two Nassau regiments in Spain. One remained loyal and participated in the Russian campaign. One defected and was shipped out to England.

Hi btns
The history of House of Nassau is very complex as I am sure you know.
I was referring to the Orange-Nassau (Dutch) 1538 to 1806 to which I believe the SBP in this thread belongs. However, if you have any further information on this period, (and indeed on this item) I would be very interested to learn. Regards Jeff