C.S.C Canadian Brass Title???? Signals or Cadets
 

Chris Brooker recently sold a C.S.C brass title on eBay, describing it as being attributed to Cadet Services Canada. The following link refers:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CANADA-Metal...:X:AAQ:US:1123

A number of years ago, I purchased a pair of the same titles from Mr. Brooker (NOT cheap), because he had informed me that they were post WWI badges to the Canadian Signal Corps.

I sent Mr. Brooker an e-mail asking for clarification, but have not received a response.

Mazeas's books do not document this badge, and The Charlton Catalogue of First World War Canadian Corps Badges lists this insignia as being representative of Canadian Sigs.

My question is: SIGS or CADETS???? I would appreciate any assistance in solving this conundrum! Cheers,

Walt

Walt, from my notes,I have these listed as Canadian Signal Corps. my notes have no attributeable references, I have these listed as being used in 1921, then replaced by the Brass Title RCCS

Morning Walt. I reviewed the Dress Instructions file for the RCCS and Cadet Services.
Reviewing the organization of the RCCS, it was noted that the militia component of the corps was designated the Canadian Signal Corps from 1913 until 1921. The abbreviation C.S.C was in use until 1922. At that time the militia designation was changed to CC of S. (Sorry, typed wrong abbreviation, it should be as reads, not CC of C.) There was no record of a metal shoulder title being authorized for that designation. The C.S.C. titles are reported to have been worn by the CEF Signals contingents.

There was no specific metal shoulder title mentioned for Cadet Services until authorized in 1956. It was the pattern that read C S of C. All previous GO authorizing badges for the Cadet Services described a cap badge, collars and buttons but no shoulder title. Of interest the collar badge authorized for Cadet Services circa 1925 was the general service collar badge.

It would seem that the one you have is a Signal's badge.

Walt,

I am digging but I haven't found my reference yet...... I am currently away on TD and so only have access to my electronic files. I don't know if what I recall having is electronic or paper so....

Regardless, as Bill says, I don't believe there was any specific authorization for CSC titles. I do recall seeing however a primary document with a list of shoulder titles that included CSC amongst other well known titles. I don't recall the exact context, if it was a list for disposal or a list of those in use. I suppose it doesn't prove much either way but I wouldn't expect a Cadet title to figure in a list of CEF titles, if that's what the doc turns out to support.

Bottom line is: I've seen your question and am chasing an answer!

Edit: Does anyone have Brooker's books handy to look up: Brooker 229-14-208 and see if an authority or other reference is provided?

Joe

Thanks for the additional thoughts Joe. To which Brooker books are you referring?
In Joe Harper's A Source of Pride the titles for the signallers are listed as SIGNAL or CANADIAN / SIGNAL CORPS. He does not list the C.S.C. title as being worn by the CEF. It may be the CSC title was for the militia units only. The files I have from archives only go back to circa 1918.

As Bill as already pointed out, definitely not a title for the Corps of School Cadet Instructors (1909-1921) or the Cadet Services of Canada (1924-Unification). I have previously seen these titles misdescribed as Cadet Services titles and sell for obscene amounts, even though the authorized titles for cadet instructors was CSofC, and not until '56. I have some early 50's dated original cadet instructor uniforms with GS collars and Canada brass titles.

Thought: Did the Correctional Service of Canada ever wear an unilingual brass shoulder title?

Interesting thought re the Correctional Services, but that designation was not used until 1978. Prior to that it was the Penitentiary Service or something similar.

Bill,

The title of the eBay auction is: "CANADA! Metal title selection, week 5, Lot 14 (Brooker 229-14-208)" so I assume he's referring to his own classification series that he uses in "Brooker's Canadian Army Badges - From 1920 to Unification" (service publications). I think only Volumes 1 and 2 are out so maybe 229-14-208 isn't in a released volume.

Hi Joe, Yes that is his series of numbers and books. The first four volumes are published and I think the last three are due soon.

My article on MilArt may be of interest. - http://servicepub.wordpress.com/2014...adet-services/
Note that the titles for cadet instructors was CSCA and when the name changed to CSC the proposed new badge was not approved. Regrettably, there is no mention of shoulder titles in the files but that may be because no shoulder title was ever approved until the CSofC title.
C

CSC Shoulder Brass
 

I have a number of these. 4 Have "W Sculley Montreal" on the back, two do not. No dates on any of them. They all have the flat or plate style tang on them. They all have the "period" between each letter. If I remember correctly the Museum has them in their display area. I believe that they are Canadian Signal Corps shoulders, so that would make them pre-20's.

http://armycadethistory.com/Mystery%...hotos_pg13.htm

Note the BC specific Corps of School Cadet Instructors cap badge or general service badge, general service collars, and no shoulder titles.

Pre-53 Cadet Services of Canada Service dress uniforms in my collections have "Canada" titles on the epaulettes. In my research, resources always reference CSofC, never CSC in relation to cadet instructors. Most of the old timers I talked to who had served in the CSofC wore regimental accoutrements of the affiliated regiment, except as very junior officers, or as officers with "closed" (private) school cadet corps.

Just to confuse you all, I received a packet of badges from the Director of Signals in Sri Lanka many years ago. Included in the packet was the current cap and collar badges with the crown replaced with the Dhamma Chakkraya and perhaps more interestingly the badges worn by Ceylon Signals during the 1950s. This included the Royal Signals cap badge with crown, both in bi metal and instead of collar badges they wore cast brass shoulder titles which were CSC. I wrote back and got confirmation about the badges and also they stated that they continued to wear the crown after independence until the new badge was issued in 1982 (authorized in 1979). As an aside, Zambia Signals on independence also wore the Royal Signals cap badge without a crown for many years. If I can find the Ceylon Signal Corps title pix I have somewhere I will post it.

Quicksilver

Further to my last comments about the Ceylon Signal Corps titles of the 1950s pse see them on Chris Walkers website. I cant find my own photos at present.
http://www.signalsbadges.co.uk/framepage.htm
His titles are genuine as they are the ones I obtained from the Director of Signals in Sri Lanka.
Quicksilver

Hello Quicksilver, Thanks for pointing out other possibilities. The CSC in the Signals site under the Ceylon entry are a different pattern than the ones that were offered on ebay. The Brooker auction ones do not have serifs, while the Ceylon ones do. NDHQ was insistent on titles (both cloth and metal) that were plain block lettering. There are exceptions, but most Canadian metal shoulders were plain block lettering.