Armament Staff Sergeant Insignia
 

Hello everyone,

I have a query about the ranks of 'Staff Serjeant' and 'Armament Staff Serjeant' in the First World War. Was there any difference in the rank badges worn or are they identical? Would the Armament Staff Serjeant have worn any other badges in addition to the crown and chevrons?

Many thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide.

Chris

Chris,

Simple answer is yes, they were different and yes the ASS wore an additional badge, the crossed hammer and pincers Armourers trade badge between the chevrons and the crown on the right upper arm.

regards

I agree with Simon's comment regarding the badges but think you will find that the appointment was officially 'Staff Armourer Sergeant'.

Thank you both very much indeed. That is very helpful. I had tried a bit of a google search but had not come up with much. Using the term 'Staff Armourer Sergeant' I was able to straight away see many examples of what you mean.

Many thanks,

Chris

Interesting to note however that King's Regulations and Orders for the Army, 1908, refers only to these appointments as Armourer Staff Sergeant and Armament Staff Sergeant, as does Clothing Regulations 1914. The latter does not show any badge other than crown and three chevrons for both appointments, but does state that all WOs, NCOs and privates employed as armourers wore hammer and pincers.

What did the Armament prefix entail - artillery as opposed to small arms?

Keith

The titles of the appointments had changed by 1908, Keith. The Armament Staff Sergeants had I think moved to the Army Ordnance Corps by that date, they had previously been Royal Artillery (and worn both gun and crossed hammer and pincers if I recall correctly), before which they had been in a corps of their own, before which originating in the Artillery! It's a convoluted pedigree that you can check online. The British Army always had a battle of ideas as to whether specialists should be an integral part of the units they support or part of a specialised corps and then attached to those they support. There are arguments in favour of both schools of thought but over time the latter has gained preference and held sway.

Great photographic evidence here from member Armourer74

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...p?albumid=1801

With badge examples here

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...p?albumid=2571

Tim

Thanks very much indeed to everyone for their comments and links. I am finding it all extremely fascinating.

Regards,

Chris

As you may know they ended up in the Corps of Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers when it was formed in 1941. My very good friend, Peter Winfield, who hails from Australia (and is a member here), has been researching the history of British Army and Commonwealth Forces armourers for some years now, gathering much detail, and I am hoping that he will publish a book one day. He has the best collection of multifarious details that I know of.

During my time (1967-2009), REME Armourers were responsible for Small Arms and Gun Fitters (Armament Artificers) looked after Guns.

Marc

Yes, Marc, it is interesting. At first the RA had just 'armourers' who because of the simple design of muzzle loading cannon could deal with both small arms and field pieces (the latter along with wheelwrights). It seems to have been the introduction of the Armstrong gun that changed things, whereby in an early example of a PFI the company was given the contract to train gun fitters for first line repair, as well as receive guns in their factory for second line repair. It created a monopoly that at the time caused quite a scandal. From that shaky start the concept of the artificer gun fitter grew and, like the armourers, for a short period they had a corps of their own.

Thanks very much again. Very interesting indeed.

Chris