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-   -   Pips and Crowns re-instated (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33198)

servicepub 08-07-13 07:10 PM

Pips and Crowns re-instated
 
I have been working with a small group, both within DND and outside, to see this happen.

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2013/...itional-forms/

In addition to Pips and Crowns, traditional rank terminology is now official.

Clive

Bill A 08-07-13 07:17 PM

Thanks for the link Clive.
This is very interesting:
The changes include the re-introduction of divisional nomenclature and patches for the current Land Force Areas; traditional rank insignia for officers; corps shoulder titles from the restoration of Royal titles to a number of Canadian Army corps in April 2013; and the Canadian Army’s secondary badge. Further, the Minister of National Defence announced the intention to restore the historical Army rank names for non-commissioned members.

Interesting twist to the history of division patches. This new structure is based upon the divisions of the Second World War, but the divisions were not organized on a regional basis. In fact, the organization of the divisions during the war was guided by having all regions of the country represented in the order of battle. Divsions were not "from a region".

Divisional Nomenclature and Patches

Land Force Areas will be renamed as divisions and Canadian Army personnel will wear appropriate division patches. Formations will be renamed as follows:

Land Force Quebec Area will be referred to as “2nd Canadian Division”;
Land Force Western Area will be referred to as “3rd Canadian Division”;
Land Force Central Area will be referred to as “4th Canadian Division”;
Land Force Atlantic Area will be referred to as “5th Canadian Division”; and
Land Force Doctrine and Training System will be referred to as “Canadian Army Doctrine and Training Centre”.

There will be no change to 1st Canadian Division Headquarters.

Bill A 08-07-13 07:25 PM

And a bit of historical inaccuracy:

Canadian Army Secondary Badge

The new Canadian Army secondary badge is based on the historical Canadian Army badge used during and after the Second World War. It features the crossed swords, overlaid by three maple leaves conjoined on one stem. A crown is placed atop the maple leaves. The secondary badge will be displayed on the Canadian Army ensign and pocket badge.


The tri-leaf badge used as a general list badge was not in use during the Second World War, (at least as a cap badge).

Dwayne H 08-07-13 08:19 PM

Formation Patches
 
I figured this was coming based on recent changes to the RCN insignia. Wonder if the RCAF will go back to ranks of Squadron Commander, Wing Commander.etc...

Will Lance Corporal return?

Will the tradional colours associated with the divisions be maintained?

This is all good news..

Dwayne

Voltigeur 08-07-13 08:58 PM

Canadian Army Returning to Old Style Ranks
 
Servicepub was quicker than me...............

Jo

shootemup 08-07-13 09:20 PM

I'm wondering if a stripe will be retained on the sleeve of the DEU in addition to the pips/crown to identify the wearer as an officer, similar to the US Army.

Next, watch the RCAF go back to "barcode" rank.

soldier1 08-07-13 09:39 PM

Sorry Jo. Have I missed something here?

Cheers Al

1stTankie 08-07-13 10:16 PM

Restoration
 
Hi Clive

Many congratulations to you, your group and all Canadians who have worked so hard to achieve this.

Is there the slightest possibility that you could now turn your attention to restoring our Army?

Best wishes

Gordon

ddaydodger 08-07-13 10:34 PM

I'm having a bit of a problem with "traditional" rank. Does that mean pips and crowns on the cuff or shoulder strap? When the army changed in WW1 many officers, like Cyrus Peck VC, DSO for example, considered officers who moved rank from their cuffs to their shoulders to "lack spleen". And what is traditional? We have been wearing stripes on service dress for almost 50 years, almost as long as we wore pips and crowns on the shoulders, so how are stripes not "traditional"?
My big concern is of course the cost. How many officers will need new tunics? Most I would imagine, plus the cost of the rank itself, plus tailoring, plus new command badges, plus division patches etc. Aren't we in a period of fiscal restraint? I have soldiers who can't get boots and CADPAT, who can't parade because there is no money for pay, but we have money for this?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for tradition, but not at the expense of training or equipment, or as smoke and mirrors by the chain of command as the army budget gets cut 25% in the next 5 years.
Rant ends.

Phillip Herring 08-07-13 11:17 PM

I'm curious to see if the Star of the Order of the Bath will be used for the stars, or if a Canadianized star will be introduced.

Phil

soldier1 08-07-13 11:21 PM

Thank you guys. I guess I really did miss something today!
Perhaps we shall even see the return of the' Conductor ' appointment in the Log Br? Maybe a tad difficult as the Log Br is tri service!!!!!
I must agree with ddaydodger that this will not be a cheap transition; will re tailoring costs be borne by the public purse or by the individual?
The future remains to be seen (and costed).

Cheers Al

ddaydodger 09-07-13 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Herring (Post 219601)
I'm curious to see if the Star of the Order of the Bath will be used for the stars, or if a Canadianized star will be introduced.

Phil

Stars of the Order Of Military Merit have been selected.

servicepub 09-07-13 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddaydodger (Post 219603)
Stars of the Order Of Military Merit have been selected.


As the Star of the OMM was never approved in the Canadian Honours System the 'pip' will be the traditional Star of the Order of the Bath but with the Cross Pate of the OMM in the centre replacing the "Tri Juncta..." device.
OCdts may have a single silver star (all others will be gilt) but this is undecided.

Phillip Herring 09-07-13 12:36 PM

Clive,

Thanks.

Phil

54Bty 09-07-13 03:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by servicepub (Post 219622)
As the Star of the OMM was never approved in the Canadian Honours System the 'pip' will be the traditional Star of the Order of the Bath but with the Cross Pate of the OMM in the centre replacing the "Tri Juncta..." device.
OCdts may have a single silver star (all others will be gilt) but this is undecided.

Similar to these or?

Marc :)


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