Canadian Artillery Badges - Family
 

Ladies & Gents,
Would appreciate your learned opinions on these, i have checked the forums albums but didn't realise the minor differences in each badge, I've seen a couple similar but not my area of expertise. So what am i hoping for, i would like to attribute these to members of the family:

1) Lt, Cdn Arty WW1, served imperial artillery before for 2 years
2) BQMS, Cdn Arty WW1, served imperial artillery before for 22 years
3) Cpl, Cdn Arty, WW2, did spend time in UK.

Firstly do the badges 'fit', they have come from across the family.
Secondly, which is which?

Many thanks - Mark

Attachment 156887

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Hi Mark, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts.
If I understand your request, you are not certain which badge belongs to which member of the family?
First, the bottom badge appears to have a moving wheel? If so, the moving wheel type are attributed to officers or senior nco's, though it is not uncommon for a gunner to acquire one.
The service careers of the two CFA veterans would, if they had only served in the Canadian artillery be represented by badges with CANADA in the top banner. However with the two soldiers having had imperial service, they may have continued to wear their badge from that service.
Other members will weigh in with their observations.

Bill,
Many thanks for the reply, yes that is my dilemma, i have seen the Canada ones, there certainly isn't one in the family, Canada is however on one set of Buttons (manufactured by Scully, Montreal) i have, which also has collars of a British appearance. Please see photo's of the reverses. Any opinions gratefully received. Mark

Bill,
Many thanks for the reply, yes you see my dilemma, i was aware of the Canada titles, but unsure when they came in, or did they retain earlier badges. I didn't notice the moving wheel but yes it has, bit stiff, only moved after a bit of pressure. I do have Canadian Officer buttons made by Scully, Montreal and two collars which look like normal ones, two types of CFA titles. Rears of badges below, any info gratefully received.

Mark, is it possible the badges are all from one of the fellow's service?

Mark,

The soldier of WW1 would not have worn one of those badges.
The CANADA top banner was retained until 1926.

regards

Hi Bill,
these are separate guys, as indicated, these from family in Canada. i have acquired a couple of bits, please see below for my start point, these are just the Canadians, i am trying to produce a display of the family's military history, just want it to be right, however it might get a bit big!
Regards Mark

Mark,

Any makers marks and dates on the rear of the CFA shoulder titles?

regards

Hi Simon,
Two appear to have Tiptaft?
The others Roden?

And a Birks 1917.

All WW1.

regards

Simon,
Got me looking for makers marks now!
Nothing on the collars, or pips, are they Brit/Canadian ones?
Pictures attached - thanks

No way to tell.
Probably JR Gaunt, Montreal or London.

regards

The smaller of the three Artillery cap badges is a post WWII beret badge, at least in the UK, don't know about Canada but I suppose theirs developed along similar lines.
The badge with the additional wheel is not supposed to move, the 'moving wheel' description stems from collectors, and it'll only start to move after much wear and tear, for instance from excessive polishing or rough handling, the official name is 'applied wheel' and supposed to suggest depth of field perspective as when a real gun is viewed sideways. Would be a waste to damage the badge getting it to move and break the wheel off after all these years!

Rgds, Thomas.

Morning,
Some additional information. The Royal Canadian Artillery (the permanent force) were authorized their Ubique pattern badge in 1927, while the Canadian Field Artillery continued to wear the Canada banner badge until they were re-designated as a component of the RCA in 1936.
In the case of Mark's family, the gunners with British service may have continued to wear their imperial pattern badge when they joined the CFA. It would have been seen as a mark of pride and experience. There is a lot of discussion in archives records about the correct type of badges to be worn by the CFA batteries of the CEF, but most of that revolved around the question of numbered battery badges.
The collars are officers pattern. Other ranks in the CFA wore either the maple leaf GL pattern, or a maple leaf with a field gun imposed, or small plain grenades.
Thank-you for the information about the gun badge Thomas. The Canadian army authorized a smaller gun badge circa 1950 for wear on the beret, but it is much different than the ones illustrated.
Mark, what size are the gun badges that are imaged?

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the info, if these are not issued i'm getting more mindful that they acquired them there was a military tailor in the family. Not sure if it was the same then as now, an officer gets an allowance whereby an OR's gets issued kit. I found out yesterday the BQMS did end up as a BSM which put a smile on my face. Please see the attached for dimensions which hopefully helps, the middle badge appears smaller, this is the one i think was the Officers as it is slightly shaped as per a service cap, however it could be that of an 'old sweat', both the Lt and BQMS were still serving in the UK Artillery in 1912 & 1907 respectively. Regards Mark