What would be the cost of a badge die
 

Something that has crossed my mind a few times and I know it is rather like ,how long is a piece of string ,but does anyone have any rough idea of how much it would cost to manufacture a die for a badge from scratch ?

Thanks

P.

Depending upon the size of the badge, £200-£300. This is based upon the cost to the police force I was last serving with before retirement in 2006. Its probably more now. The manufacturers used to say that the cost was split 50/50 with the ordering organisation, on the basis that they, the manufacturer, as part of the contract would retain the die as part owner. This was to stop the force taking the die to another manufacturer. As to whether the quoted cost was accurate or whether the manufacturers were spinning a yarn, you would never know.

If an order was very very large, for example one placed by the Met. Police or by the MoD, the manufacturers would often absorb the cost of the die themselves so as to quote a lower price overall and thereby increase their chances of winning the contract.

Dave.

Thanks Dave.

Peter

Die costs
 

Most police badges follow a pattern, a star surmounted by a crown with the force/county logo below the crown, this could possibly be carried over from one die to another.

Dave's quoted price was 16 years ago and as he said that may not be correct. British cap badges rarely follow a set pattern, so I would say the cost would be in four figures at a guess.

Rob

There is a post by member Neibelungen answering that exact question in a thread from yesteryear. Post #17 onwards are relevant…

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...158#post468158

Neib works is in this industry and I consider his opinions and insight to be of great value and well informed. Sadly he’s no longer active as there are many manufacturing questions I’d like to ask.

For a police helmet plate, providing it was of a standard star pattern, you would be paying only for the centre circular die which is indeed a large die, much larger than your average army cap badge. So the cost would be quite high.

I would suggest that because of large number of items that the MoD would order, it is unlikely, as I've said above, that they would pay for any dies at all. So the cost would be nil.

Dave.

In 1916 the WO needed badges - there were two companies (at least) - tenders for YES about 2 million badges! Bent & Parker tendered for 12,000 Hampshire Rgt badges in GM, they put the cost would be 18/6 but they got hold of the prices from their rivals Smith & Wright (commercial espionage ???!!!). So B&P pencilled the the S&W prices next to theirs - eg the S&W priced the Hampshire order for 18/9 !
Going down the tender list the S&W prices were mostly very slightly higher - a few pence !!!


(you can do the maths ! .............. 18/6 X 12,000)


The Hampshire was a 'one piece' which was fairly easily produced.

Take the order for 7,000 Irish Fus Royal GM & GS. That was certainly more complicated. However the B&P tendered 32/- and S&W at 32/6

(PS 'GS' was the abbreviation for 'German Silver'. What we would now call it 'white metal'.)


I wish there were other badge manufacturers' tenders surviving.....

Those prices are surely for a gross (144) of badges! Not per individual badge!

Doing the maths: 18 shillings and six pence is 222 pence which divided by 144 is 1.54 pence per badge.

The 1949 PPCN still lists cap badges at a few pence (pennies) each. There were 240 pennies in the pound and twelve pennies was one shilling with twenty shillings to the pound.

Tim

Thanks Tim, I had thought of translating into decimal but yes the 240d (60 odd years I would count my pocket money in pennies!)


more maths........


Yes, I've gone through the PPCN etc too

I'd say the prices you've worked out would be a dozen not gross.

The Hampshire Regiment cap badge in the 1949 PPCN is sixpence halfpenny - so 6/6 (six shillings and six pence) per dozen.

Tim

Even more maths .... until Peter gets his answer !

Mind you, the WO wanted specifically xxx badges




I've just remembered that the Ministry of Supplies has two big ledgers of badges, with the same sort of data. Interestingly they STOP and insert DIE NEW NEEDS every now and again


I haven't looked through that one for a few years- I'll try and find it


(all these lists etc etc are in TNA.....