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-   -   Manchester Pals (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46524)

wardog 27-05-15 12:51 PM

Manchester Pals
 
3 Attachment(s)
Interested in thought from those with knowledge of this badge- faults on the MAN letters is what I would like opinion on. Regards, Paul.
Attachment 126915 Attachment 126916 Attachment 126917

Alan O 27-05-15 01:26 PM

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=22131

Mine is here. It suffered from an unnecessary polishing from the dealer I bought it from.

The 'bubbles' on yours concern me as they may be the result of a lost wax copy being made.

If you have a set of digital scales can you weigh yours?

wardog 27-05-15 02:29 PM

Kitchen scales 11 grams.

manchesters 27-05-15 02:54 PM

Wardog,

As a long time collector of these I can add the following.

1. From the front it looks good,
apart from-
2. The bubbles? Not on my originals
3. The loops are in the correct position
4. The crud on the back makes me suspicious and should not be there.

Mine weighs 10.9g.

If its a copy then its a good one.

Would I pay full retail for it?--- No.

regards

2747andy 27-05-15 04:30 PM

Paul
From your images I would be happy with it and of all the genuine examples I've EVER seen they have ALL had differing colour finishes! I suspect they were issued in Gm and blackened locally despite what others may think?

Just my view

Andy

manchesters 27-05-15 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2747andy (Post 310993)
Paul
From your images I would be happy with it and of all the genuine examples I've EVER seen they have ALL had differing colour finishes! I suspect they were issued in Gm and blackened locally despite what others may think?

Just my view

Andy

Andy,

I must correct you on the above.
Firstly the badges are not GM they are a yellow brass.
Secondly they have a brown bronze finish, and are not blackened.

IMHO the manufacture was done at just one factory, due to the consistency of the unusual placing of the lugs.

Also why would they not bronze finish the badges at the point of manufacture at the factory rather than send them, unfinished, to 2 Brigades of freshly enlisted men camped in newly built huts in a public park with few facilities to cook and clean, let alone start bronzing 8,000 cap badges.

regards

2747andy 27-05-15 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manchesters (Post 310998)
Andy,

I must correct you on the above.
Firstly the badges are not GM they are a yellow brass.
Secondly they have a brown bronze finish, and are not blackened.

IMHO the manufacture was done at just one factory, due to the consistency of the unusual placing of the lugs.

Also why would they not bronze finish the badges at the point of manufacture at the factory rather than send them, unfinished, to 2 Brigades of freshly enlisted men camped in newly built huts in a public park with few facilities to cook and clean, let alone start bronzing 8,000 cap badges.

regards

Simon,
Yellow brass has not been used on UK manufactured British cap badges since the turn of last century, and you confirm my point exactly, some are brown, some black and some polished Gm! If they were all manufactured at the same outlet then how come no two appear to be the same shade!

I appreciated this is your area of interest and your depth of knowledge, however I do not share your opinion and we shall have to agree to disagree on the "Subduing" ;)

Best Regards

Andy

wardog 27-05-15 05:44 PM

Any thoughts on the 'bubbles' Andy- or the strike-I'm looking at the chain on the left beast as viewed. Regards, Paul.

Tinto 27-05-15 05:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi all,
Here's a link to a Manchester Pals badge showing yellow brass base and bronze finish.
Cheers, Tinto

Link doesn't work now, so replaced with pictures of my badges, Tinto

Alan O 27-05-15 06:00 PM

I would support the theory that they were made bz'd brass and then subject to some polishing back to the base metal afterwards. In my case by a French dealer who thought it was a dirty economy badge...

Frank Kelley 27-05-15 07:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I've certainly always believed that to be true, however, both brass and blackened/bronze seem to have been worn together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2747andy (Post 310993)
Paul
From your images I would be happy with it and of all the genuine examples I've EVER seen they have ALL had differing colour finishes! I suspect they were issued in Gm and blackened locally despite what others may think?

Just my view

Andy


wardog 27-05-15 08:04 PM

Are there any known copies of the Manchester Pals badge about-does anyone have one they think/know to be a copy? Regards, Paul.

manchesters 27-05-15 08:18 PM

Yes, lots of copies.

Alan O 27-05-15 08:41 PM

The badge in post 1 went for 95 so there is money to be made in casting copies.

Peter Marshall 27-05-15 08:48 PM

hi

As another Manchesters collector, I agree with Simon about these badges, yellow brass which are bronzed - I have had a few of these and still have two in my collection, a yellow brass one and one which still retains most of its bronze finish - neither have bubbles.

IMHO a good badge-

As regards the bubbles - could this not just be an inferior strike made at the time, as Simon has said they needed 8000 odd of these badges in a very short time , i dont think it is too far fetched to suggest the odd badge got through that was not perfect. (one of mine is slightly lighter than the other)

crud i on the back - 100 year old badge - where has it been kept ? etc etc - could be anything. I have badges that have had crud on the front , back and sides !

Lugs look spot on

Cheers


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