WELSH ASC SHOULDER TITLES
 

Just wanted to show these shoulder titles (Pat better images).

First is a pair w/m volunteers ASC North Wales (not listed in Westlake collecting s/t 1st edt although he does say that only one volunteer s/t being know at that time) they did come with the w/m cap badge as a set but without separate v's (although definitely can not say if they should be three part).

Second is a pair of T ASC South Wales (unfortunately each both missing a lug) oddity/rarity being the wavy scroll on the ASC bar (how they were made and not damaged as per images) both well rubbed/polished and with different loop positioning but did also come as a pair.

Third is a T ASC Hereford (part of Welsh border brigade so in the collection) again missing one lug (can't be picky when getting the chance to pick them up !!).

Jonathan

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Jonathon,

Nice titles.
The first seperate WM ones are more likely to be a 3 piece Territorial title rather than Vols I think.

T/ASC/NORTH WALES.

regards

A very fine selection of titles Jonathan.

Jonathan, any chance you could show the w/m cap badge that came with the w/m titles, please?.

Hoot, as requested images of the badge all w/m (slider as well).

Jonathan

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Jonathon,

If the slider is also WM then it will be a GM badge with brass slider that has sometime in its life been nickel plated.

regards

Thanks Jonathan, that is a really nice badge. It is the post-1911 pattern so it is a TF badge, not Volunteers. If it was issued along with the shoulder titles then, as Simon (Manchesters) says, they would be TF titles missing the T.

Hello Jonathan,

Thank you for posting these images, great quality pictures.
Really nice to see close ups of these scarce items.
The pair of w/m North Wales s/t are superb, have not seen these before and it begs the questions if they were worn as a 2 piece s/t, or with a separate T or V, depending on period of wear.
Leading from that, is there a publication that details the history timeline of the various ASC brigades covering date of formation, company numbers, areas of service through to absorbion with regular units,etc ?
Previously when looking for information about the ASC Brigades, seemed to find fair bit relating to Great War period, but struggled to identify formation dates, so wasn't easy to identify companies that existed as volunteers.
South Wales wavy s/t look so unusual, very nice. Looked in softback book from Mike McHenry and David Kellock, wasn't shown but MM's article in a Crown Imperial magazine shows s/t and his isn't a "drunken" example!
Have you got the latest "Waggoners" book, and does it show a T/ASC /Hereford s/t that he states also may have existed?
If so Jonathan, then there are 9 different brass Welsh ASC s/t (including the border raiders) with 1 w/m example you have, a pair no less.
As a lad from Criccieth, I'm not jealous in the slightest......
Anyhow, apologies for rambling on, made my day seeing those s/t.

All the best.
Pat

Thanks Hoot/Simon.

All sorted out just need to get some silver T's (tombstone fitting) to finish them off.

Ta

Jonathan

Pat.

As Hoot as id'd the badge date then agree they can't be volunteer s/t , but as said previously they only came in the set as two part so the mystery is should they be two part or three part, gonna go two part at the mo' until further evidence comes to light.

These are the only ASC he has, have tried bidding on W.B.M.B a few times but there going for £400+, ASC Glamorgan (there's another one that's not the normal design, must be a Welsh thing) can't remember seeing one come up for sale, dread to think how much it would be (or go for).

He has been talking about the waggoners book so maybe will get a copy.

Ta

Jonathan

Being an avid collector of Welsh territorial titles (one to go to complete the set!) I presume the following in terms of which units wore the respective ASC titles:

T/ASC/SOUTH WALES: South Wales Mounted Brigade. Could T/ASC/GLAMORGAN also have been worn in this brigade?

T/ASC/WBMB: Welsh Border Mounted Brigade

T/ASC/WELSH
T/ASC/HEREFORD
T/ASC/NORTH WALES
T/ASC/GLAMORGAN?
(all 53rd Div - 479-482 Companies)

The Crown Imperial article from recollection has a brass three tier T/ASC/NORTHWALES in it but not a T/ASC/SOUTHWALES. My example of the latter does not have the 'drunken' ASC but a straight one. My T/ASC/GLAMORGAN does have the bent version though. There's a T/ASC/WELSH BORDER as well if I recall? (I don't have my collection with me at the moment).

Once you have got all the brass ones you will then need all the white metal ones to complete the set.:)

Oh goodness no. I'll stick with brass - that's hard enough!!!

I just wanted to refresh this thread as I think I've completed my territorial collection of shoulder titles worn by Welsh or Welsh related units of WW1. For the ASC titles, I believe the following to be true but am open to correction of course:

T/ASC/WELSH - HQ Welsh Div
T/ASC/NORTH WALES - North Wales Brigade
T/ASC/CHESHIRE - Cheshire Brigade
T/ASC/HEREFORDSHIRE - Welsh Border Brigade (or HQ Welsh Div as raised there?)
T/ASC/WELSH BORDER - Welsh Border Brigade
T/ASC/SOUTH WALES - South Wales Brigade which was broken up

T/ASC/GLAMORGAN - South Wales Mounted Brigade
T/ASC/WBMB - Welsh Border Mounted Brigade

Any thoughts?

Jon

Jon,

Cant see any other ASC connections than those you have.

reagrds